Is not Bob's action moral or immoral on account of what would be the normal, or the most common, human attitude to it? — Janus
No, per realism, that would merely be the common attitude or feeling about what was moral. A case in point is human slavery which common attitudes and feelings have progressed on. But it was always wrong irrespective of the common feelings, ideas or attitudes at the time. Conceivably in the future some of our own common attitudes might also be shown to be wrong. — Andrew M
In our case, the world would not be a better place
— creativesoul
....is correct from the point of view of whomsoever should hold congruent judgement. This does nothing to explain or justify the morality of those in opposition to it, whose categorical imperative obviously differs and from which they necessarily judge themselves as not wrong. — Mww
’m not a child psychologist and I sure as hell don’t remember the formation of my first worldview. Doesn’t matter though; I know moral philosophy is adequate explanation for differential moral agency. — Mww
They wouldn't be talking about the statement itself, unless they didn't know how to speak properly. — S
And evidence for that (the action itself being right or wrong) would be? — Terrapin Station
Are you confident that common feeling was not always against slavery? Could it not be that the common people were simply not in situations that allowed them to act to bring it to an end, or even openly protest against it? — Janus
In any case it would seem that our prosperous lives are dependent on slavery today; it's just that it is far enough away from our sight to allow us to pretend that we don't support it by consuming what we do. — Janus
That human beings share the same biology and need for self-preservation and well-being (including for offspring and allies). So moral language builds in that common standard. — Andrew M
The action itself is, for example, Joe murdering Bill. It's the physical action of Joe taking a gun, say, and shooting Bill in the head. It's been claimed that the action itself somehow has the property of being morally wrong (or whatever moral properties someone wants to claim). — Terrapin Station
This is essentially no different than discussing religious beliefs with Christians, say, and it's nothing like discussing something with people who are interested truth from a philosophical or scientific perspective, whatever the truth may be, whether it's what you'd ideally like it to be or not. — Terrapin Station
As I've already discussed, the action itself is wrong — Andrew M
then becomes the imperative sufficient to accommodate that principle and serve as a volition determined by it, with “... as long as it makes (me) wealthy” as its end. Whether or not the world would be a better place is not deducible from that moral argument.assassinating, stealing, and torturing others — creativesoul
Missed this. Perhaps you might use the tool a bit more.
Of course standards of moral judgement stem from us. It's in the word "judgement" that this happens. It's something moral judgements have in common with all other beliefs.
Judging that the cat is on the mat and that it is not good to kick puppies are pretty much the same, varying in content rather than in kind. And of course I'm making a comparison using my own standard of judgement... as if anyone could use some else's standard of judgement.
The notion of objective morality is about as useful as a bottomless bucket. As is the notion of subjective morality. — Banno
Missed this. Perhaps you might use the tool a bit more.
Of course standards of moral judgement stem from us. It's in the word "judgement" that this happens. It's something moral judgements have in common with all other beliefs.
Judging that the cat is on the mat and that it is not good to kick puppies are pretty much the same, varying in content rather than in kind. And of course I'm making a comparison using my own standard of judgement... as if anyone could use some else's standard of judgement.
The notion of objective morality is about as useful as a bottomless bucket.As is the notion of subjective morality. — Banno
This coming from one who is talking about the statement...
:snicker: — creativesoul
the conception of an objective principle, insofar as it is obligatory for a will, — Mww
A sincere speaking saying "It is raining" implies that said speaker believes it is raining -- but they are talking about the rain, and not their belief.
— Moliere
Indeed. Unless they're talking about the statement itself.
— creativesoul
They wouldn't be talking about the statement itself, unless they didn't know how to speak properly.
— S
This coming from one who is talking about the statement...
:snicker: — creativesoul
Judging that the cat is on the mat and that it is not good to kick puppies are pretty much the same, varying in content rather than in kind. — Banno
There is no true/moral from my point of view but false/immoral from yours. That would be to say that the same behaviour is both moral/immoral. This is how moral relativity/subjectivity fails... — creativesoul
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