Although it does not yet seem germane, it may become so later. — creativesoul
Just to be clear, on my view a thought/belief is justified if it is well grounded. Being well grounded does not require being argued for and/or convincing anyone else. Hence, a justified belief does not require convincing anyone else either. This makes perfect sense in light of each and every paradigm shift. — creativesoul
Your criterion for what counts as being moral(in kind) cannot be substituted in many instances of the use of "moral" when it's referring to kinds. — creativesoul
This is to say that there is no thought/belief at all(period) unless the candidate forming, having, and/or holding thought/belief is competent with language. — creativesoul
I haven't denied that morally responsible individuals can rationally defy the state; so I don't know where this is coming from. — Janus
As to conscientious objection, I don't see that as sociopathic at all; such individuals just have a more comprehensive sense of compassion and empathy and a wider sense of community. — Janus
...one cannot have thoughts or beliefs, period, until one has acquired the requisite level of linguistic competency. — Janus
...I have already acknowledged that we could reasonably say that something we might think of as thinking and/or believing is possible pre-linguistically. — Janus
The toughest part of using thought/belief - as a foundational criterion - is being able to effectively account for all the different ones by virtue of translating them all into terms of the content of the correlation themselves. I myself am not even close to being sold that I am capable of doing so.
Work in process. — creativesoul
Your criterion for what counts as being moral(in kind) cannot be substituted in many instances of the use of "moral" when it's referring to kinds.
— creativesoul
Give me a demonstrative example, then — Janus
My point in bring up the conscientious objector is the bring up the point that, 1)societal morals are practicalogical; 2)that individual ethical commitments constitute a much greater reality to the moral agent; and 3) that the individual commitment is absolute, and has greater existential weight, in contrast to the relativistic societal mandate. — Merkwurdichliebe
the individual's ethical commitments are always answerable to the most intelligent, sophisticated, and thoughtful inter-subjective consensus. — Janus
If it doesn't then there is something terribly wrong with the most intelligent, sophisticated and thoughtful strata of a society. In other words the collective ethical consensus must in that case be motivated by something corrupt. — Janus
I can't deny that you may be laying out a sad fact of societal ethics. If I were to place it in a single concept, it would be "ideology" — Merkwurdichliebe
Societal ethics are very closely aligned to appearances, or how it seems to be for another. Whereas, the ethical existence of the individual is focused on how closely do I appear to align with how I should be (as in not a murderer, not a rapist, &c.); here, society has no bearing on my ethical status. — Merkwurdichliebe
How many times do I have to tell you that under my definitions having or holding thoughts or beliefs is not the same as thinking or believing in the kind of "proto" or primordial sense that we might attribute to animals. — Janus
I disagree because it is the negative effects that such actions will inevitably have on any society, on others who matter to you, that is the reason those actions are wrong. Of course they may also negatively impact you if you commit them, but only insofar as you are a socially concerned and motivated person and not a sociopath. — Janus
Moral thought is most appositely thought of as being concerned with one's relation to others. Concern about how ones' actions will affect one's own life is more properly thought of as being in the province of ethical thought. If you lived alone in the forest, there would be no morality for you but there would be ethical considerations, in other words. — Janus
But in the sociopathical delusion of the ethically convicted one, abides an unalterable principle, which no reason or societal authority can hope to budge. — Merkwurdichliebe
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