The level of lithium I'm taking is far lower than the typical clinical dose range of 300 mg or even more. — Question

Yes your level is much lower than what would sometimes be given for bipolar. But that doesn't mean that it is inconsequential. As I said, I've heard a few doctors recommend people who have no problems with depression to take lithium orotate - simply because the body is generally towards the low side on it. I myself refused my doctor (other relatives accepted), but to each his own.

The former is diagnosed by a doctor, the latter is not. — Thorongil

There is a general tendency in doctors to over-medicalize, and consequently to overprescribe medications.



Being an unregulated supplement, how do we know exactly what and how much we would be taking?

I know very well the dichotomy we are able to make between a more objective "rational" view and our feelings on things, I would not be inclined to fathom there can exist such a thing a pure rational view though, the way some philosophical thoughts can become detracting is due to the value we put on our own rational capacities and to what degree we like it to be the thing with which we inform and govern ourselves, this is still an emotional value 'of' our rational thought.

I could also concur in observing that a lot of people seem mentally deluded / somewhat shallow / don't think about things as much as I'd like to see. If philosophical pessimism makes such pessimists assert that others are deluded and they are accurate, why should everyone be accurate?

Also, to some extent I equate consciousness with a capacity for suffering, especially in humans this follows through to a great extent ...you don't see a lot of animals suffering from an existential crisis for example. Seeing it as a capacity instead of "rationality" asserting that life = suffering might be a more useful way of looking at things.

I think you have something to gain by reassessing your philosophical viewpoints and they way you implement philosophical viewpoints. Be wary of bias though (both a possible depressed state of mind and things like confirmation bias).

There is a general tendency in doctors to over-medicalize, and consequently to overprescribe medications. — John

Yeah, so? That doesn't refute my distinction.

Well the distinction, merely as such, between diagnosed and undiagnosed depression, is clearly irrefutable; so it should be obvious that I wasn't questioning that. The salient question is whether the doctors' diagnoses are generally beneficial.

I'm no doctor and don't pretend to be one; but, try some lithium. It's as harmless as one can get and is quite effective as an adjunct to most medications along with being a potent anti-suicidal drug. I take 5 mg (120mg of lithium orotate) every day and feel quite serene and calm. Goods stuff for your body also. — Question

I'm no doctor and I don't pretend to be one, I also don't know much about lithium but I feel your statement is bit too positive here. You make it seem as if it's candy and if there's nothing wrong with doing drugs as long as makes you feel good.

While I agree that the causes for mental health problems are more often than not found in the environment, I would still say these two are distinct one from the other. Sometimes after fixing the environment the damage is still or already done. The environment was the cause, but the cause had an a/effect on something real to that person, and while fixing one's environment is a good step towards alleviating a condition (just as quitting a job which requires lifting is a good step towards alleviating back pain), mental sickness is still a reality that needs to be contended with after removing the cause of damage.

Also, sometimes it is easier to learn how to cope than it is to fix wider social conditions which are surely the cause -- but given one's general feeling of impotence (depression is apt here) coping is easier to learn than changing the environment.

I think it was a valid point.
Also I pointed out that many people that suffer from depression do embrace it, and that is part of the problem.
It is not necessary to do so and doing so can impair your functionality as well as your quality of life.

You make it seem as if it's candy and if there's nothing wrong with doing drugs as long as makes you feel good. — Gooseone

I think that's a gross misunderstanding of my claim. If there are means to minimize suffering at little to no cost (side effect wise) I feel that mentioning taking a simple compound like lithium is OK.

But, based on the responses I digress.

It is not necessary to do so and doing so can impair your functionality as well as your quality of life. — m-theory

I don't think that is quite true. That sort of like telling a patient their gonna die in 3 months and let them suffer or not tell them and let them live their lives comfortably until then. The obvious choice is to tell the patient that he will die in 3 months.

With depression or any mental disorder, one has to accept it (the diagnosis) to even begin treatment.

Being an unregulated supplement, how do we know exactly what and how much we would be taking? — John

Well it usually sells in the form of Lithium Orotate, which are capsules 130-120mg in active content. That translates to roughly 5mg of lithium. What your body does with it once you've taken it though -- that's never too clear. That's why blood serum tests are the only means of verifying the concentration that is present in the blood, whether it builds up and so forth. And anyway, the main point is that you only need it if your levels of lithium are low. So to verify that, you should get a blood test.

Sorry, you seemed to imply that people with depression should not seek treatment.
I know from experience that is not good advice.

I don't know how you got that idea.

My point with the title of the thread was that embracing what one has is a sine qua non for getting better.

I think maybe we are not talking about the same thing.
I was talking about medical depression which can be treated as a chemical imbalance.

I was talking about medical depression which can be treated as a chemical imbalance. — m-theory

Here's the problem, and while I'm at it, my dislike for calling states of mind as 'disorders', is that we don't really know what exact amount or the ratio of neurotransmitters is needed to be in or in what amount, and quite frankly we will never know the answer to that. All we do know that in some people with clinical or non-clinical (is there any difference between the two?) depression have a state of mind that won't let them function as they wish.

Now, what is one left to do? Simply ignore the 'disorder' and swallow the happy pills or not try and understand their current state of mind and instead dissociate the illness with the simple act of taking the happy pills, and keep on taking them until they lose efficacy.

Maybe what I'm saying can be better understood by the discontinuity between psychotherapy and psychiatry. I hope the bridge between the two can be made and used in tandem instead of treating the 'disorder' as a 'migraine' or something else that can be readily treated by pills and what have you.

It's not pills or bust. If you're clinically depressed, medication is an important and required first step. Only after the brain is put in a better place can the mind more freely think. People become more immoral and more unlike themselves when the brain dictates the mind from an unhealthy disposition.

Yeah, but then the mindset is that the pills will do all the work, which they can't and never will. And this seems like the sentiment both the doctor and patient explicitly or implicitly agree on.

I was skeptical about treatment for a long time myself, until my condition got worse.
I pretty much had to resort to treatment because my mental illness had become unmanageable.

Of course each person has to decide for themselves what is best.
Definitely treatment is not nearly as effective, if at all, if it is involuntary.

Nein. That mindset is actually what comes before. You can't take pills all by yourself and then from the pills expect a better mindset. If it were easy to get all the other pieces in someone's life in order so that a positive outlook can indeed flourish, then we wouldn't have some many shattered people in the world.

That mindset is actually what comes before. — Heister Eggcart

Well, regardless of what came first or not, the imperative is to come to terms with depression before one needs to see the doctor and take the happy pills as a last resort. Although, I won't say that it's easy to do so.

How does coming to terms with medical depression help if you are not going to treat it?

Well, behaviors and thoughts can be changed before the depression becomes such a nuisance. Either way, it's a nuisance; but, there' no other option than to bite the bullet and enhance treatment with such things as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or whatnot.

What about those that can't afford a therapist?
We should still avoid medication because some people might think we are weak willed?

Well, behaviors and thoughts can be changed before the depression becomes such a nuisance. — Question

Mmm, I dunno about that. The whole point of the clinically depressed requiring medication is because they are not able to change their behaviors and thoughts.

It's my hypothesis that depression slowly creeps up on oneself until one realizes how much of a nuisance it becomes a day to day functioning. It's a slow and quite deadly process. Profilactic care seems essential, as with anything health related.

If one can't afford a therapist then one needs to start the self-help books and give that a try. In my case I do both, medication and read some CBT books about cognitive distortions and the like.

Fair enough.
I had not thought about that.

Mmm, I dunno about that. The whole point of the clinically depressed requiring medication is because they are not able to change their behaviors and thoughts. — Heister Eggcart

But medicine isn't always given to the clinically depressed, you're ignoring that fact. Some people get better spontaneously, by themselves, others find a way through CBT, MBSR or ACT or another variation of therapy. You speak of medicine (pills) as if it is absolutely necessary, and it's not. It may be necessary for some people and in some cases, but certainly not all.

?

Medicine isn't just pills, Agu.

Okay but you used the word "medication" which is pills. The point is that pills aren't always used to treat depression, and there are other options available which do take more effort from both the patient and the therapist.

Mmm, not quite. I won't bugger the semantics too much, but you're too focused on pills and medication necessarily being anti-depressants.