the best candidate for a job might not be the white, male, able-bodied guy who looks like all the others and we should try to cast as wide a net as possible.
Thousands of companies have implemented such policies successfully. — Mijin
Is the only critique of woke to come from the unwoke? — Fire Ologist
Is the only critique of anti-woke to come from the woke? — praxis
I agree, race or sex has nothing to do with the best candidate for a job — Fire Ologist
I also agree, until the 1980’s, and for some still today, many people just refused to see the fact that women and all races can be just as good at many jobs as anyone else, and to just be happy for this fact. I agree much progress has been made towards this good, equitable goal since the 1980s.
Racism is irrational. Sexism is ignorant — Fire Ologist
Selecting people by merit instead of tradition/conformity seems like the right thing to do.
Is that anti-conservative? — jorndoe
So you didn’t even try to define it. You should ask yourself why you don’t think a definition of your position is necessary. — Fire Ologist
Is there anything illogical or incoherent or contradictory going on as this progress is being made, because if there is, don’t you think things may come crashing down as the inconsistencies rot any progress from within?
Is the only critique of woke to come from the unwoke? — Fire Ologist
it's "anti-woke" that is impinging on people's and institutional freedoms — Mijin
manufactured and exaggerated grieveances — Mijin
So you won’t say what is woke, but the anti-woke is a clear threat. — Fire Ologist
Institutional freedoms? Like the wonderful judicial system that, used to be hated for incarcerating too many victims of racism, but is now under threat from the president? — Fire Ologist
Institutional freedoms like the rule of law, which would include border immigration reform? — Fire Ologist
The reason woke thinkers won’t define “woke” is because it would reveal its incoherence and contradictions. — Fire Ologist
One man and one woman, married, as mother and father, typically provide the basis of a good family, and typically the best situation to raise a child.
Why should anyone cringe at hearing the above? Because it’s not woke. — Fire Ologist
and you can't even define it. — Mijin
“Woke” refers to being aware of social injustice, but also the hidden causes of such injustice; and it means to search deeper into how injustice has been systemically built into our institutions (like the police and justice system, capitalism, patriarchy, conservatism, Christianity). Being awake or enlightened, but to the ways our traditions have let us down. — Fire Ologist
My position IOW is that it's bullshit. — Mijin
you've got this backwards. It is a boogieman of mostly manufactured and exaggerated grievances. — Mijin
What do you think? [of my definition of woke] Where am I off on the wrong foot? What needs to be added? — Fire Ologist
You can’t clarify exactly how the anti-woke are living in fantasy grievance land a bit more? — Fire Ologist
What if he’s rich too? A capitalist white prep school nepo baby with some German/Italian/Irish in his veins. No reason not to pick on such a person, right? I can use them as a stand in for any theft, lie, rape, conspiracy, murder, war, and I am within bounds of respectable argumentation. All white men are the same on some level, because they are all white men. Right? — Fire Ologist
How about if I said this about some other race? Do you think I could make any point talking about some non-white person without inviting utter condemnation and disgust? — Fire Ologist
the issue before DEI wasn’t that all of these incompetent nepotism babies were running everything — Fire Ologist
seems like a false dichotomy — Fire Ologist
You need to define “conservatism” [...] — Fire Ologist
Woke is 100 years old in Europe (white men like Marx inspired it). — Fire Ologist
how come you can poke fun about white people in ways that are considered racist if you were to say about other races?
And the answer is that it's not symmetric because society is white majority, — Mijin
suggesting an ethical stance — jorndoe
ethical stance, then trying to ask if that's more important than conservatism. — jorndoe
That means you completely agree with the facts. The facts are, when you are racist against white men, it is poking fun, but when you are racist against others, it true racism. — Fire Ologist
I’m saying when I’ve heard woke people tell whites they can’t be victims of racism because they are in power, — Fire Ologist
It is precisely the fact the poor black and brown people can be racist against rich white men, that makes racism immoral and illogical [...] Identifying white majority status is necessary; but saying there is no racism against the ones in power is misunderstanding racism, ignoring facts, a lie, an agenda that has nothing to do with race, bad reasoning, all of the above… — Fire Ologist
it's punching down versus punching up. — Mijin
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" — Mijin
we have given you, repeatedly, the long list of the ways that fascism is being implemented in the US right now, with one of the justifications frequently being "fighting woke". You haven't acknowledged any of it. — Mijin
It’s punching. That is the point. You can claim your own spot on whatever ladder you are climbing up or down if you want, and see your poor victims punching up and your privileged assholes punching down. — Fire Ologist
So that means woke people who rail against the system, rage against the machine, are missing the mark, wasting our time, contradicting themselves, making incoherent arguments, and suggesting terrible policies and practices. — Fire Ologist
DEI is an academic, theoretical discussion - but implemented in HR departments of corporate America, it’s utter bullshit. It utterly divides and polarizes brown versus red versus yellow versus black versus white. It builds intolerance, inequity and exclusion, just in a new form, and of a different color. — Fire Ologist
I am trying to focus on woke qua woke. You want me to acknowledge maga qua facism. I see that as another discussion. — Fire Ologist
Fighting "the woke" or "the woke mind virus" is the excuse being given — Mijin
[DEI] has worked just fine for thousands of corporations — Mijin
DEI is about equality and trying to draw from as wide a pool as possible. — Mijin
Years ago, I was horrified by the demands of men-hating, homosexual women, who had gotten control of a women's shelter. I was in training to be a volunteer, and as their hate of men went on and on, I felt like I had to defend men. I dared to say, it is not only men who can be abusive, but women can be the abusers too. That resulted in being told I was not welcome. These angry women also made it a rule that mothers must allow their children to sit on the laps of a gay person, and if they did not, this mother and child needing protection would be thrown out of the center. Anyone who opposed them in any way was the enemy, and anger was their driving force. — Athena
Wokeism is a type of totalitarian fascism. Can we acknowledge that first on a thread about the end of woke? — Fire Ologist
Years ago, I was horrified by the demands of men-hating, homosexual women, who had gotten control of a women's shelter. I was in training to be a volunteer, and as their hate of men went on and on, I felt like I had to defend men. I dared to say, it is not only men who can be abusive, but women can be the abusers too. That resulted in being told I was not welcome. These angry women also made it a rule that mothers must allow their children to sit on the laps of a gay person, and if they did not, this mother and child needing protection would be thrown out of the center. Anyone who opposed them in any way was the enemy, and anger was their driving force.
— Athena — Fire Ologist
You don’t really think a company that wants profit isn’t trying to draw from the widest pool possible to gain more profit? — Fire Ologist
We have a DEI officer because we can’t get good employment insurance without it. — Fire Ologist
the gagging of universities, government departments, journalists etc that right now is happening — Mijin
If I were to point you to the data that more diverse workforces are associated with higher profitability, would it change your view on DEI? If not then there's your answer. — Mijin
from some googling around… some (minority) of insurers require a declaration of what the DEI policy is, but they can't ask you to hire someone. — Mijin
Years ago, I was horrified by the demands of men-hating, homosexual women, who had gotten control of a women's shelter. [...] — Athena
There is no such thing as a woke snob? — Fire Ologist
retarded — jorndoe
Not what I associate with "woke", — jorndoe
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