• Relativist
    3.2k
    I agree with everything you said, which is why I embrace naturalism/physicalism. But the one thing that gives me pause are qualia. Consistent with physicalism, they are representitive states - they represent something that facilitates pro-survival behaviors. This counters claims that they are epiphenomenol. But what resists a physicalist account is the nature of the experience: for example, the sense of pain.

    If the pain sensation exists only in the mind, then it is, in sense, an illusion with a representational character (not epiphenomenal). There needn't be a reason for the sensation to be what it is beyond the fact that it evolved this way because of random mutations that happened to have a positive impact on survival. But the problem remains as to how the firing of neurons creates this sense of pain.

    I don't suggest this is a fatal flaw, but it opens the door to considering alternatives. But my problem with (for example) @Wayfarer's claims is that he only tears down the physicalist account, by suggesting the explanatory gap thoroughly falsifies physicalism. Then he offers no better alternative, so he's simply creating a much larger explanatory gap.
  • Relativist
    3.2k
    It accounts for everything known to exist in the universe, except possibly dark matter and dark energy.
    — Relativist

    And numbers.
    Wayfarer
    So you embrace a the platonic principle that (at least some) abstractions have objective existence that is independent of the objects that exhibit them. On the other hand, and as you know, I see no reason to believe such things. Immanent universals are considerably more parsimonious.

    Explain the ontological relationship between a cluster of two protons (in the nucleus ofva helium atom) and the number 2.
  • Relativist
    3.2k
    Yours does entail contradiction, that's the point, just like my example. Please explain how you think the two differMetaphysician Undercover
    There are good reasons to believe JFK was killed by a single person, acting alone.

    There are good reasons to believe more than one person was involved in the killing of JFK

    These assertions are not contradictory. They can both be true.
  • Metaphysician Undercover
    14.2k

    The problem though, is in your statement that physicalism is the best ontology and the one you believe in . And physicalism explicitly excludes the possibility of the nonphysical. In the JFK example you are not claiming that one is better than the other, and the one you believe in.

    To make the JFK example comparable, you'd have to chose one as the best explanation, as the one you believe, then also claim that there is good reason to believe the other. For example, the best explanation, and the one I believe in, is a single person acting alone, however there is good reason to believe in more than one person.

    Once you chose one, as the one that you believe in, you cannot claim that there is good reason to believe the other, without contradicting your own belief. So you cannot believe in physicalism yet also believe that there is good reason to believe in the nonphysical without self-contradicting.

    I suggest you adjust your claim to "it is possible that physicalism is the best ontology". This would be recognition of your uncertainty in the matter, just like your JFK example indicates uncertainty.
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