Something to do with meaning, one suspects. — Wayfarer
Still struggling with the meaningfulness of tornadoes, or any sense in which they embody the meaning that seems intrinsic to organisms. — Wayfarer
A tornado is meaningful in the context of a weather system striving to equilibrate its thermal differences. So it is meaningful in terms of meeting the goals of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. — apokrisis
I get that, but what I don't get is the gap between 'bio-' and 'pan-', still. I can see that, given DNA, then something language-like exists. — Wayfarer
What's anyone else's Hoffman saying? — Cuthbert
according to conscious realism, there is a reality independent of any particular observer, and to interact intelligently or appropriately with that reality one’s sensory perceptions must be a useful and efficient guide to that reality. Conscious realism is not solipsism. There is a reality independent of my perceptions, and my perceptions must be a useful guide to that reality. This reality consists of dynamical systems of conscious agents, not dynamical systems of
unconscious matter. — Donald Hoffman
But life and mind are the trick of being able to code for that kind of contextual information - form a memory using a symbolising mechanism like genes, neurons or words - and so take ownership of top-down causality as something packaged up and hidden deep inside. — apokrisis
Why should anything be anything, let alone green be green, or the Universe a something rather than a nothing? — apokrisis
This is the trouble with this kind of talk. It is without sense but the lack of sense takes a bit of fine surgery to unpick. That's why we need Wittgenstein - a real one, with objective, observer-independent features 'n' all. — Cuthbert
There is a reality independent of my perceptions, — Cuthbert
↪Wayfarer Can you find where conscious agents gets a serious definition? I couldn't. So that's where the handwaving becomes a frantic blur. — apokrisis
"Despite substantial efforts by many researchers, we still have no scientific theory of how brain activity can create, or be, conscious experience. This is troubling, since we have a large body of correlations between brain activity and consciousness, correlations normally assumed to entail that brain activity creates conscious experience. Here I explore a solution to the mind-body problem that starts with the converse assumption: these correlations arise because consciousness creates brain activity, and indeed creates all objects and properties of the physical world."
It's just the last clause of his last sentence that I'm currently struggling with. — Galuchat
Here I explore a solution to the mind-body problem that starts with the converse assumption: these correlations arise because consciousness creates brain activity, and indeed creates all objects and properties of the physical world." — Wayfarer
As things stand, each person perceives and understands Donald Hoffman differently, which is different from how he perceives himself. That is why people disagree. There is no objective observer, not even Hoffman himself. — Rich
we must get rid of the world.... — apokrisis
No, only a mistaken conception of it. — Wayfarer
However, there are very broad areas across which we do indeed find common experiences, which is essential to science. — Wayfarer
Classic crackpot reasoning. — apokrisis
Good enough for all practical purposes — Rich
The problem with Western culture is that it tries to define everything, or everything deemed worthwhile, in scientific terms - if you can't measure it, it isn't real. But one can acknowledge that whilst still respecting science. — Wayfarer
Whatever veridical truths science arrives at must be respected by philosophy, otherwise that philosophy cannot endure. — Wayfarer
All due respect, there is a change in perspective required. You're arguing from a position of dogmatic realism. — Wayfarer
It is because the science industry nowadays controls the educational process, and this is what is drummed into everyone from elementary school. It is not an accident. There is a mega industry that is being protected and watchdogs everywhere to protect it. — Rich
A crackpot thinker is anyone who fools themselves into believing a non-explanation is better than a real explanation — apokrisis
It takes lifestyle changes, good food, good water, proper movement, low stress. — Rich
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