• BenMcLean
    44
    The American Right is currently at a significant crossroads and I am speaking about it here not as a critic but as a lifelong insider. But even for an outsider, it should be valuable to understand why things are the way they are, why the Right currently has an ideological crisis and what this means for the future.

    Some ignorant American conservatives believe that the American conservative movement dates to the time of America's Founding Fathers. This, of course, is absolutely not true nor even close. The true origin of American conservatism as we understood it in the first quarter of the 21st century starts with William F. Buckley and his National Review magazine in the 1950s.

    What Buckley did was to form a large right-of-center coalition to go on a crusade against Communism and its creeping influence in American society, but to carefully moderate it enough for it to recieve and maintain mainstream acceptibility and (through efforts like his Firing Line television program) intellectual credibility. This meant that the "far Right" radicals of various stripes too far outside America's Overton Window had to go. No more John Birch Society, no more Ayn Rand and most crucially, no more white nationalism. Buckley was responsible for making American conservatism respectable, in no large part by carefully, strategically curating it so that these fringe kooks were deliberately, systematically excluded.

    Buckley's fusionism explicitly embraced and promoted the Civil Rights movement not only by voting for the Civil Rights act in the 1960s but also by making Dr. Martin Luther King's philosophy in "Letter from Birmingham Jail" theirs -- permanently. They did not stay aligned with the direction of black racialist activism after King's death, obviously, but their acceptance of this as a shared premise and baseline for the American political conversation made it so that King's post-racial dream became a non-partisan consensus for nearly all Americans while also granting themselves enough mainstream credibility to have taken over the Republican party completely by the 1980s, with Reagan as their champion.

    This is why American conservatives said "No" to white nationalism but "yes" to post-racial liberalism, civic nationalism and anti-Communism. The brains of the operation (Buckley & friends) constructed the coalition out of three main factions:
    1. Libertarians, who got to control economics.
    2. Neoconservatives, who got to control foreign policy.
    3. Christian traditional moralists, who got to control social issues.

    If you're astute, and not too heavily trapped within the assumptions of the American political scene of the past 40 years, then you'll notice something about the ideologies of these three factions who controlled the Republican party's platform: They have almost nothing whatsoever in common besdies anti-Communism.

    If it wasn't for Buckley's fusionism, then there is absolutely no reason why Christian traditional moralism would be connected with libertarianism (they're opposites!) nor why libertarianism would be connected with neoconservatism. (again, they're opposites!) The formation of this coalition in American politics was never inevitable: it was always very historically contingent. But never accidental: this was Buckley's plan and it worked. (even though it didn't make a whole lot of sense and relied on not talking about numerous ideological premises at the same time)

    Until the Soviet Union fell in 1991. This actually threw the movement into its first ideological crisis, with the question: "What do you even do after you win?" It wasn't very clear, actually, and that crisis made some of the fault lines in the coalition start showing in the 1990s. Remember, the coalition was held together by one key issue: resistance to international Communism. But Communism, after the fall of the Soviet Union, was no longer seen as a genuinely threatening international system. Communism had become a very national thing for China and a few other holdouts but was obviously no longer seriously going to be the dominant ideology of the 21st century. Capitalism had won. We no longer needed to worry about Communism so ... why do we need to vote for Republicans?

    Bush campaigned as a moderate in 2000 (I supported Alan Keyes) but he barely made it over the finish line by trying to paint Al Gore as a psuedo-Communist radical. But then, everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked.

    9/11 made it so that, for a few years there, the neoconservative faction became absolutely dominant. Their rhetoric about security threats seemed to have been vindicated, and the idea in the Bush years was that Buckley's coalition could be revitalized and held together by identifying a new civilizational enemy to replace Communism, which they called "radical Islam" solely because they didn't have the balls necessary to just call it, "Islam."

    And at the time, I totally believed in what the Bush administration was doing, I supported the Iraq war and believed we needed a crusade to change the Middle East the same way we had changed Europe and Japan after WW2. Indeed, I saw Bush's War on Terror as a direct analogue to WW2 and the only opposition I heard from popular media at the time didn't even seem like a live option to me because it was coming from people who pretty much were Communists, who were only anti-war when non-Communist countries went to war. They saw it as a direct analogue to Vietnam and didn't seem capable of evaluating any war outside the context of Vietnam -- and I still don't agree with their premise about Vietnam.

    But it turns out, Bush was in fact wrong about Iraq. And critically, what I didn't hear in the 2000s -- what I wasn't ALLOWED to hear in the 2000s -- was one specific voice that could have changed my mind: William F. Buckley's. In his old age, he disagreed with the Iraq War, identifying it as a mistake and as not being what he had built this coalition for. A principled conservative opposition to the Iraq War was absolutely not within the Overton Window of the time and frankly seems hard to imagine fitting into that world. But it was there, just suppressed. I think that's something Buckley should be remembered for. He didn't just create our movement but also, he was right when the rest of the Republican party was wrong. He warned us and we should have listened.

    After Bush, we got two very, very moderate candidates in McCain and Romney. Despite McCain's "maverick" reputation, neither of those guys were going to rock the boat. They were going to carry on Buckley's fusionist coalition just like George H. W. Bush had tried to do back in 1988. The GOP primaries from this period were funny, because the question everyone was asking was, "Will the real Ronald Reagan please stand up?" Every single candidate was trying to make the case that they, and not the other guys, were the new Ronald Reagan. And none of them actually were.

    Here's where I get beyond just the history of the Republican party and into my opnion of what's happened: The failure of Iraq disqualified the neoconservatives as incompetent to govern. The 2008 financial crisis, the dominant mass censorship of Big Tech from 2014-2024, the massive inflation and the rise of "You'll own nothing and be happy" rent seeking literally everywhere have disqualified libertarians as incompetent to govern in much the same way. And the clear, undeniable loss of the culture war has pushed the Christian traditional moralsts (That's my faction) out of the mainstream voting bloc status we used to have. These events have created not just a power vacuum, but also a massive internal ideological crisis for the American Right. The Buckley fusionist coalition worldview has been tested against real world conditions and, without the threat of Communism to excuse its mistakes, has been found wanting in practice. Followers of Buckley have been labelled as, "Conservative Inc" or "Boomer Conservatives" now, because they dogmatically cling to an ideology that has manifestly failed. An ideology that I used to hold and which I still admire certain aspects of, has failed in practice.

    Into the power vacuum created by the slow but steady death of fusionism in the 2010s stepped Donald Trump. Love him or hate him, he's America's first "Meme President." I hope he'll do some good things and I hope we can survive the bad things he does and I don't see him as either the savior of America or as the absolute devil that the American Left always says every Republican President always is and always has for my entire life and probably always will. He's no angel, but there's also no sense in crying wolf about him. Trump is, for the most part, a pretty normal politician.

    Except for one thing: Trump isn't connected to the old Buckley fusionist coalition. He and his followers call themselves "conservatives" but in fact, their ruling ideology is even less clear than Buckley's fusionism was. At least fusionism dividied up policy into distinct areas and then handed out control of those policy areas to different Republican factions.

    Trump's populism does not have an underlying philosophy of governance! And that's why you can't even meaningfully attack it, since it isn't ideologically solid enough even to attack! The idiotic critiques of Trump I usually see fail to recognize this! They want to say he's a Nazi. LOL. A Nazi would have definite stances Trump doesn't have! If Trump was a Nazi, then at least his stances would be clear!

    And please note, my point isn't that Trump's populism is good or bad: it's that it's temporary! It can't be permanent! That's the problem with it!

    This cannot last. The American Right needs a new governing philosophy. It needs a coherent, less interventionist foreign policy to replace neoconservatism. It needs a new, more interventionist economic policy to replace libertarianism. And while I can't advocate for it to replace my own faction as well, I can recognize that this is likely to happen.

    What I would like to happen is for the new American Right to:
    1. Reject anti-white policies & rhetoric, but on the grounds of a moderate liberal civic nationalism, not white nationalism.
    2. Stop seeing "socialism" as the boogeyman and instead work to get responsible people appointed and responsible policies made for real governance, not just opposition.
    3. Actually get control of Big Tech, reigning it in so that tech works for the benefit of people and not the other way around.
    4. Pursue pro-natalist, pro-family, pro-home-ownership policies across the board. See if we can make friends with labor.
    5. Stay home from foreign wars.

    But the future I actually see happening for the American Right, without a new governing philosophy is that it will fall prey to two possible dangers:
    1. Once Trump's populism runs its course, how ideologically vacuous it is will become evident and it will be abandoned by the American people, taking the American Right with it.
    2. The white nationalist kooks from before Buckley, who have been lurking underground for over 40 years, may truly emerge into mainstream political prominence again. And they're armed with a great deal of truth on their side this time, because overtly anti-white policies, explicitly written to reject liberalism in order privilege "historically marginalized groups" (meaning non-whites) have become not just openly debated but normalized in both government and corporate policy. There's a backlash against this coming, and without some force to moderate that backlash, to keep it contained within reason, we may see the American Right go in some very ugly directions.

    The Left has actually identified this danger, but foolishly, they think it's already here and often they think that people like Charlie Kirk, who just wanted to debate them, were the threat. Idiots. The debate guy isn't the threat. The armed militia guys are the threat. Obviously. The debate guy is what's keeping them in check, keeping alive the belief that differences can be settled and an amicable solution can be found through the democratic process in civil society. Don't attack the debate guys as if they're the threat because, in reality, if your project is to preserve and maintain civil society, then the conservative debate guys are your allies.

    You can't fly a plane with two left wings. (or two right wings) There's going to be an American Right, in some form. It's a two party system. This is reality. I am just hoping that the new American Right after Trump can be one which still promotes liberty and justice for all -- and to do that, it's going to need a new political theory, beyond Trump's populism.
  • Tom Storm
    10.7k
    Interesting well written OP I'm Australian so forgive my somewhat tangential response, but your OP does suggest some questions to me.

    Is there really a right wing and a left wing in the US, or was Gore Vidal right when he said, “There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat”?

    It certainly seems to an outsider that the current government has less competence and seems much cruder than previous administrations. But in the end it's mostly neo-liberalism, what varies is the capability.

    I’m interested in how the Right is best understood. Is the word really that meaningful? There used to be reactionaries, libertarians, and conservatives, but do any of these distinctions really mean anything anymore? Trump doesn't seem to be a conservative, he's more of a radical.

    Don’t attack the debate guys as if they’re the threat because, in reality, they’re your allies.BenMcLean

    Or are they just a showbiz distraction? Aren't some of the debate guys also canaries in the coalmine? Testing sometimes appalling positions to see if the public has an appetite for them?


    1. Reject anti-white policies & rhetoric, but on the grounds of a moderate liberal civic nationalism, not white nationalism.
    2. Stop seeing "socialism" as the boogeyman and instead work to get responsible people appointed and responsible policies made for real governance, not just opposition.
    3. Actually get control of Big Tech, reigning it in so that tech works for the benefit of people and not the other way around.
    4. Pursue pro-natalist, pro-family, pro-home-ownership policies across the board.
    5. Stay home from foreign wars.
    BenMcLean

    You sound like an old fashioned conservative with an isolationist bent.

    What is your potion on corporate power in general?
  • BenMcLean
    44


    Is there really a right wing and a left wing in the US, or was Gore Vidal right when he said, “There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat”? — Tom Storm

    It's amazing how that one debate of Buckley v. Vidal in 1968 continues to define American politics!

    Vidal was just a Communist bemoaning the fact that neither American political party was explicitly Communist because both of them preferred living over dying. I notice Vidal was absolutely protective of his own property and the profits from his book and film royalties. Vidal's life illustrates Conquest's First Law: "Everyone is conservative about what he knows best."

    What do you even want in a political party that doesn't protect property at all? Bread lines? Purges? Gulags? Chernobyl?

    I'm willing to move left on economics ... but within some limits.

    As I see it, we need to protect private individual property from corporate overreach, not abolish private property!

    Trump doesn't seem to be a conservative, he's more of a radical. — Tom Storm
    I don't know if Trump is radical enough for me.

    Or are they just a showbiz distraction? — Tom Storm
    Like Gore Vidal was? He was clearly part of the show if anyone ever was, not above it.

    Aren't some of the debate guys also canaries in the coalmine? Testing sometimes appalling positions to see if the public has an appetite for them? — Tom Storm
    I can't say there are none, but that is in general not the problem you're facing.

    What is your potion on corporate power in general? — Tom Storm
    That is, I think, my main point. The Right needs to go anti-corporate in a big way. Wall Street abandoned us in 2008, then actively persecuted us from 2014-2024. It is time they got what's coming to them: a massive regulatory backlash. An American right wing actually willing to wield political power because it has ditched libertarianism to reign in and stop Woke Capitalism.
  • Tom Storm
    10.7k
    Vidal was just a Communist bemoaning the fact that neither American political party was explicitly Communist because both of them preferred living over dying.BenMcLean

    Interesting. I would place him as a right-centrist, certainly not a communist. It’s amazing how McCarthyism continues to define American politics!

    As I see it, we need to protect private individual property from corporate overreach, not abolish private property!BenMcLean

    Who wants to abolish private property? No point answering this since it certainly isn’t me or Vidal.

    That is, I think, my main point. The Right needs to go anti-corporate in a big way. Wall Street abandoned us in 2008, then actively persecuted us from 2014-2024. It is time they got what's coming to them: a massive regulayory backlashBenMcLean

    Some people would call this Communism too. But I would agree with you on this point.

    Can you see seriously any elements of the US right going agaisnt the corporations?

    Or are they just a showbiz distraction?
    — Tom Storm
    Like Gore Vidal was? He was clearly part of the show if anyone ever was, not above it.
    BenMcLean

    Yes, I think Vidal is a Kirk forerunner, just a difference in performance.
  • BenMcLean
    44
    Can you see seriously any elements of the US right going agaisnt the corporations? — Tom Storm
    They already have, if Disney counts. You would not believe how much and how many people hate Amazon's Rings of Power on a zealous, religious level. I really think the American Right is ripe for explicit anti-corporatism to take hold.

    All that stuff about Big Tech, wokeness, shipping jobs overseas and DEI: that's not really about women or brown people. That is about corporate HR.

    But it isn't enough. They won't make the reasons explicit yet that libertarian economics (lack of regulation) is the problem. I am hoping soon they will get there.
  • T Clark
    16k
    Interesting well written OP I'm Australian so forgive my somewhat tangential response, but your OP does suggest some questions to me.Tom Storm

    You were right, it is interesting and well written. It’s also complete fucking bullshit. Self-serving lying bullshit. I started laughing when he started talking about “fusionist coalitions.” And then I had to stop reading when he said “Trump is, for the most part, a pretty normal politician.” I don’t hate President Trump and I don’t think he’s a Nazi. What I do think is that he’s a very bad president and bad hollow man.

    Here is the OP’s big lie— since the late 60s and early 70s, the Republican party has a self-consciously and cynically set out to split American society along racial and social lines in order to gain political advantage. What we see now is the end product of that disgusting, intentional strategy.

    That’s all I’ll have to say in this thread. I don’t think I could hold my lunch down to say anything else or to listen to any more of the lies. Of course OP has the right to say these things and what he’s written doesn’t violate any of the site guidelines as far as I know. Still, this discussion is a blight on the forum.
  • BenMcLean
    44
    No, actually. You've been wrapped up in your own side's propaganda. We know what governance under Buckley conservatives is like, because it is played out history now. They've had a trifecta multiple times and that shows their real policy. Accusing them of not being liberal on race IS a conspiracy theory contradicted by real world evidence. They were in fact not racialists. Past tense, where we now have absolute knowledge. That's not speculation. That is history now.
  • Wayfarer
    26k
    The White House official web page has today launched a page that blames the Democrats for the Jan 6 2021 outrage. Nothing further need be said about it - except, perhaps, that Trump's ascendancy has utterly annihilated any claim to proper political legitimacy on the US Right.
  • Tom Storm
    10.7k
    Whatever the issues may be, it seems pretty clear that left and right don’t see the same world or understand each other’s views very well. The only conservative people I know in Australia would probably count as borderline socialists in the US, which always seems further right than we are. I like the idea of doing something about corporate power and monopolies. Even Friedrich Hayek, Thatcher’s hero, was opposed to them.
  • Tom Storm
    10.7k
    . We know what governance under Buckley conservatives is like, because it is played out history now.BenMcLean

    I understand that Buckley took a very principled position on antisemitism in the Right and was instrumental in reforming American conservatism.
  • BitconnectCarlos
    2.8k
    I am just hoping that the new American Right after Trump can be one which still promotes liberty and justice for all -- and to do that, it's going to need a new political theory, beyond Trump's populism.BenMcLean

    It's likely to be Vance's Christian nationalism in 2028 if the Republicans win. Conservatives today are deeply concerned with mass migration and political Islam rather than free market capitalism. In any case, I haven't seen this level of polarization in my lifetime.
  • frank
    18.7k
    It's likely to be Vance's Christian nationalism in 2028 if the Republicans win.BitconnectCarlos

    He hangs out with Christian nationalists, but hasn't claimed to be one himself, unless you know where he's said otherwise?

    . Conservatives today are deeply concerned with mass migration and political IslamBitconnectCarlos

    The people who are worried about "political Islam" are also anti-Semitic, homophobic, racist, and sexist. They praise freaking Adolph Hitler.
  • BitconnectCarlos
    2.8k
    He hangs out with Christian nationalists, but hasn't claimed to be one himself,frank

    He has said that Christianity is America's creed.

    The people who are worried about "political Islam" are also anti-Semitic, homophobic, racist, and sexist.frank

    Ad hom.
  • frank
    18.7k
    He has said that Christianity is America's creed.BitconnectCarlos

    He said the two coincide in terms of values. Christian nationalism is the attitude that all Americans should be Christian.

    Ad hom.BitconnectCarlos

    The people who are worried about "political Islam" are also anti-Semitic, homophobic, racist, and sexist. And they publicly praise Adolph Hitler.
  • BenMcLean
    44
    It's likely to be Vance's Christian nationalism in 2028 if the Republicans win.BitconnectCarlos
    "Christian nationalism" isn't a clear idea either. I'm a Christian and a civic nationalist -- does that make me a Christian nationalist? The press wants to make "Christian nationalist" a pejorative label and that's why a politician as smart as Vance won't touch it -- not until or unless he is in a situation where he gets to define what the term will henceforth mean. Otherwise, it is just going to be abused by the Leftist press to category-launder him in with some random fringe nutcase somewhere by changing what "Christian nationalist" means the next day after he says he is one.

    Conservatives today are deeply concerned with mass migration and political Islam rather than free market capitalism.BitconnectCarlos
    They haven't yet become willing to acknowledge the fact of the failure which has ocurred. Libertarianism offers no defense against Woke Capitalism and that's why it has to go.
  • BenMcLean
    44
    Christian nationalism is the attitude that all Americans should be Christian.frank
    Then the "nationalism" part is redundant, because Jesus said, "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."

    The people who are worried about "political Islam" are also anti-Semitic, homophobic, racist, and sexist. And they publicly praise Adolph Hitler.frank
    The people who are worried about "anti-Semitic, homophobic, racist, and sexist" are lunatics who think every politician from the party opposite theirs is literally Hitler, no matter what they say, no matter what they do. Always Hitler. And not even any other monster of history like Stalin, Mao or Pol-Pot: always always Hitler and only Hitler. Every time all the time Hitler everywhere Hitler everyone is Hitler.

    Have you ever considered mixing it up a little? It doesn't even have to be a Communist dictator. How about mentioning Mussolini, Franco or Pinochet?
  • BenMcLean
    44
    Hitler actually was bad, mkay. But he's so ridiculously overused as to have gone beyond absurdity into an absolute iron clad rule that bringing him up in any context that isn't firmly historical deserves only mockery and no apology at this point. You've played that card too many times. It's worn out. You need a new Satan.
  • frank
    18.7k

    They'll get around to banning you again. Eventually.
  • BenMcLean
    44
    I don't know who you're talking about but whatever. You're clearly neither liberal nor democratic.

    Now, if anyone wants to talk about WW2 nostalgia then I'm all for that, outside of politics. I could talk about WW2 cinema like "Sargeant York" or "Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon" and how great the golden age of Hollywood and old timey radio was. I'm a huge fan of Wolfenstein 3-D to go shoot the Nazis. But uh, that's cause, y'know, they represent actual Nazis. Knowing that a woman is an adult human female doesn't make someone a Nazi.
  • Banno
    30.2k
    Not seeing much philosophical content.

    Should be in the Lounge.
  • Philosophim
    3.4k
    ↪BenMcLean
    You're Bob Ross right?
    frank

    Hey, this is a new person on the forum. Inappropriate to go around publcally accusing people. Report a post if you suspect an issue, please don't make a hostile environment for new people. Reading their OP, they've posted absolutely nothing ban worthy.

    Welcome Ben, this is a pretty good post. I often don't hear measured viewpoints from the right. Please ignore the trolls and continue discussion with those who want to engage with the OP. As I've mentioned before, I stay away from politics in philosophy, but I'm sure you'll find a few good people to engage with. I also agree with Banno that this is more political discussion than political philosophy.

    My advice is to read a few more posts first and see what philosophy is. Your post is more of a fact/perspective viewpoint about the political right. But does it examine what it means to be conservative? Is the current Republican party conservative? More questions that either you build answers to with logic and facts, or questions that you use logic and facts to explore and leave open ended for others to provide their input.
  • frank
    18.7k


    He joined 9 years ago. This is known as a "zombie account" and reuse generally signifies that the user was banned and is now resorting to the use of a former sock puppet.
  • BenMcLean
    44
    I know what philosophy is. I have a BA in it. The fact that my post does discuss particular candidates and electoral cycles means it doesn't qualify as being political philosophy itself and I know that. You're right about that part.

    However, the point I make in the essay is the need for a new unifying political philosophy on the American Right. Understanding the recent history I discuss would be a prerequisite for developing any such theory. It's an essay about why political philosophy is needed, who needs it and where it's needed. So even though it's technically more politics than philosophy, it is an essay about the necessity of political philosophy, which does make it relevant to political philosophy.

    I clicked "join" many years ago but just didn't participate much at that time.
  • BenMcLean
    44
    I feel like I should maybe clarify why I perceive Vidal as having Communist sympathies: It's because his rhetoric on Vietnam went so far, to what I perceive as such an extreme, that he seemed to regard Soviet expansion as a totally reasonable option for people and not as a threat at all, neither short nor long term. It wasn't just that we should stay out of foreign wars: Soviet domination was just a different way of organizing resources to Vidal, which to someone on the Right sounds like a claim that the Holocaust was just a different way of arranging train schedules.

    Maybe Vidal wasn't really a Communist sympathizer: maybe he was just another Chamberlain who let his rhetoric against the Vietnam war go too far on occasion. But combining that with his extreme views on sexuality which seem not just hedonistic but intentionally subversive and the result is that I don't perceive him as really being right-of-center at all.
  • DifferentiatingEgg
    815
    The Left and Right are both a style ideological crisis for those unfortunates who cannot think and govern for themselves.
  • EricH
    659
    Buckley's fusionism explicitly embraced and promoted the Civil Rights movement not only by voting for the Civil Rights act in the 1960s but also by making Dr. Martin Luther King's philosophy in "Letter from Birmingham Jail" theirs -- permanently.BenMcLean

    Just a minor clarification here. In the 1950s & early 60s, Buckley was still aligned with the (for want of a better description) the racist elements in the conservative movement. You can check out the famous BBC debate between Buckley & James Baldwin in which he (sort of) blamed blacks for their problems.

    By late 1965 tho, Buckley had changed his tune a bit, but it was not until later in life that he acknowledged that he was wrong about the civil rights movement.
  • BC
    14.2k
    The true origin of American conservatism as we understood it in the first quarter of the 21st century starts with William F. Buckley and his National Review magazine in the 1950s.BenMcLean

    I thought your exegesis of the American Right was worth reading, even though it is a much longer post than I usually engage with. It's well composed. Is it gospel? Probably not, but the gospel truth is pretty hard to find.

    When the adjective "true" is attached to some noun, like 'origin', it becomes suspect. I view "conservatism" as a fairly durable, on-going aspect of American history, along with its "liberal / progressive" opposite. Neither are static; they are rather, renewable from decade to decade.

    The interests that opposed Social Security and Unemployment Insurance in the 1930s, opposed Medicare in the 1960s, ended "welfare as we know it" at the end of '90s, and oppose the Affordable Care Act, are pretty similar.

    Is there really a right wing and a left wing in the US, or was Gore Vidal right when he said, “There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat”?Tom Storm

    @BenMcLean: I think Gore Vidal was quite right. The "property party" isn't about the working class owning a car and a house (if they are lucky). It's about the rights and prerogatives of the wealthiest class who own and control capital wealth -- stocks, bonds, factories, income-producing properties, businesses, and so on. The 1% is not a new group in American society; the rich we have with us for a long time, generally calling the shots.

    Most of the time, most of the decisions of government are controlled indirectly by the wealthiest class in their interests. Sometimes those interests match political party interests, sometimes not.
  • BenMcLean
    44
    The Left has an ideological crisis right now too, but I honestly have difficulty articulating it in a non-polemic way, since I'm not one of them myself.

    It is just a fact that American blacks are in fact responsible for many of their problems -- just like American whites are in fact responsible for many of their problems. Not all, but many. The narrative that systemic oppression is to blame for every single problem anyone ever has ever is indefensible. And this is a truth that every group is eventually going to have to acknowledge about itself if they're ever going to truly become real citizens, not just formally, but morally. Real citizens aren't just victims of circumstance -- they're moral agents.

    But it's true that Buckley didn't come right out of the gate with support for the Civil Rights movement initially. It was a transition which took some time. But the point is that it was a real transition. And not just for Buckley personally, but for his movement. It wasn't a cynical plot to fool minorities into voting for Republicans in order to get white nationalist policies passed once in office. It genuinely became not just acceptable and not just a historically contingent strategy, but fully internalized institutional dogma.
  • BenMcLean
    44
    Is it gospel? Probably not, but the gospel truth is pretty hard to find.BC
    Oh, absolutely. I recognize here that what I'm doing is articulating an opinionated interpretation of political history and that this isn't the only valid one that could be constructed. But I would argue that it is a valid one -- that when we say "American conservative" we mean not just conservatism as a perrennial mindset which exists in every society, but a very specific, historically contingent ideological stack -- one which Reagan was in and Nixon was out. One which I still admire, despite no longer fully believing in. And one which, in the 2010s, has shown clear signs of expiration. It now needs a replacement, just as it replaced the previous American conservatism before it.

    This is an ideological stack which was preceded by influences from people like Whittaker Chambers and Russell Kirk, was first articulated and formed into a coalition by William F. Buckley, was championed into national public office by Ronald Reagan, was further popularized by Rush Limbaugh, started to break under the attempt to redirect it under George W. Bush and finally has broken against the reality of Woke Capitalism in the 2010s having openly demonstrated the faillure of Buckley fusionist conservatism to deliver on its own promises, combined with Trump's far less intellectual populism making it seem not just wrong, but irrelevant to current events.

    Milton Friedman's doctrine of market self-correction -- Adam Smith's invisible hand -- has been definitively discredited by seeing what happened to Americans freedom, especially during COVID. The people still preaching that crap, I now see as fundamentally unserious, not willing to base their beliefs on data from the real world. This time, the rich really are getting richer and the poor really are getting poorer. Libertarian economics has to go.

    I think Gore Vidal was quite right. The "property party" isn't about the working class owning a car and a house (if they are lucky).BC
    I think real historical Communist regimes really were against the working class owning a car and a house and were simultaneously just as supportive of societal elites owning a limo and a mansion as any Capitalist regime ever was and the reasons for this are structurally unavoidable. All they did was a reshuffling of elites in such a way as to discard merit as a criterion for elite status. That killed their project.

    And that's also why the current year wokists project is also doomed.

    It's about the rights and prerogatives of the wealthiest class who own and control capital wealth -- stocks, bonds, factories, income-producing properties, businesses, and so on. The 1% is not a new group in American society; the rich we have with us for a long time, generally calling the shots.BC
    That's not just American society: that's every society. That's the Golden Rule: "Whoever has the gold, makes the rules."

    I'm not at all confident in utopian schemes which make grand claims that we can somehow get away from this near universal reality of human life. I would instead be inclined to look at policy to align incentives so that the reward of wealth stays linked to socially constructive and morally positive behaviors.
  • BC
    14.2k
    ↪DifferentiatingEgg The Left has an ideological crisis right now too, but I honestly have difficulty articulating it in a non-polemic way, since I'm not one of them myself.BenMcLean

    Quite right. As an old-fashioned socialist, it's clear to me that "the left" lost its way when it turned from class (working class, ruling class conflicts) and toward identity -- all the woke crap of gender, race, etc. I am also an old fashioned gay, the sexual liberation era immediately post Stonewall. "We" (whoever belongs in that collective noun) weren't interested in gay marriage and family and trans identity (etc). I'm still not (though at 80 years old, it's now kind of irrelevant). Whether one is gay, straight, some sort of transgender, male, female, and so on is only personally important. Economics trumps identity.

    It's somewhat disconcerting that the once clear certainties of the LEFT and the RIGHT have both been blurred and made difficult to decipher.
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