Punshhh
Very much so. Presumably that is why we are here, to educate us in our spiritual growth?I think the best way to see 'moral teachings' of religions is to try to see them as a way to cultivate our own nature. While a 'legalistic' way of seeing them has perhaps its purpose, the deepest way to see them is IMO to see them as aiming to our education and assist our (spiritual) growth.
This is where my thinking differs from Buddhist theology and I move back to the Hindu tradition. I find the dissolution of the individual upon death as incoherent in the way it is generally presented. I am aware of the explanation for it, but see it as part of an apology for the wholesale rejection of atman and a presence of the divine world in our world.I mean, any concept of 'moral responsibility' that I find coherent assumes that the agent of an action and the bearer of moral responsibility of that action is the same person.
boundless
Very much so. Presumably that is why we are here, to educate us in our spiritual growth? — Punshhh
This is where my thinking differs from Buddhist theology and I move back to the Hindu tradition. I find the dissolution of the individual upon death as incoherent in the way it is generally presented. I am aware of the explanation for it, but see it as part of an apology for the wholesale rejection of atman and a presence of the divine world in our world. — Punshhh
I am unsure about the identity of the Bodhisattvas and enlightened beings. Also there does seem to be some equivocation around this point. There is a universal consciousness, but each individual is one drop of water in an ocean of water drops. There is a denial of a permanent self, or identity, but a permanent self, a universal self is smuggled in and plays the same role. — Punshhh
Hinduism is saying the same thing, but in atman the individual retains some individuation ( not the Jungian definition) while similarly being a drop of atman in the sea of atman. — Punshhh
There seems to be equivocation around Karma too, that it shapes one’s next life, while denying that the individual remains after death. And how can the karmic debt be repaid, when the agent who took out the karmic debt does not any more exist. Again, I understand there is a explanation given, but it comes across as apologetics again. — Punshhh
In Hinduism, the divine world is here with us, walking alongside, interacting with us and the theology delineates it’s presence. — Punshhh
Punshhh
Yes, this makes sense to me, that it is a living development, or growth. The plant cannot flower until the plant has grown, the bud formed and the right season has arrived. Then it flowers in tune with nature, the ecosystem which sustains it. The religious, of spiritual life is about tending to the plant that it grows healthy and straight, is not blighted. The culmination of this process is the transfiguration of the being, the flower representing the thousand petalled lotus of the crown chakra. This transfigured being would walk in another world, having sloughed off, discarded, the physical world.distinguishes three types of aspects of the 'soul': vegetative, animal (perceptive) and rational and saw the process of physical growth both in the womb and in the physical growth process as a gradual fulfillment of the first two aspects. The third is cultivated through virtue. However, this process is completed in the afterlife.
Yes, growing pains, or initiations, represented by the stations of the cross, or the trials and tribulations, the four sights of the Buddha, before he found the middle way. These are also important of stages of development of the person, or being, towards a life of selfless service to fellow beings and the ecosystem, rather than dwelling on the animal passions. Likewise for the follower on the path, there are a series of initiations in which they see, or step forward into, the world (for them) to come. These crises shatter, or break the casing of the bud, that it can open, so to speak.This to me makes sense even from a purely 'religious neutral' point of view: when we, say, grow from childhood to adolescense and then adulthood we might conceptualize the process of growth as a succession of metaphorical 'deaths' and 'rebirths' and resisting to these 'deaths' is actually detrimental to our spiritual health even if they can be quite scary. I'm not surprised therefore that 'dying to oneself' or similar expressions are used as a positive sign for spiritual development.
Yes, I will not dwell on this, because if it works for Buddhists, then that’s fine and any differences between different traditions, are part of how the tradition developed and are not important.I believe that generally Buddhists would assert that all the enlightened minds share the same nature of mind but not the same mind. Just like, say, all fires are instance of 'fire' doesn't imply that all fires are manifestation of a cosmic fire.
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