The hidden tax is the tariffs. When there is tariffs on the raw materials, it rolls into the price of the product. The product is more expensive to the consumer because there is a hidden tax within, the tariff. — Metaphysician Undercover

Ah. Right. I didn't see them as hidden. Thought it was obvious.

They were already at the table, because the US, with the new president Trump, insisted on renegotiating NAFTA. The Trump administration threatened to impose the tariffs on Canadian and Mexican steel and aluminum if a deal was not reached by a self-determined, and unreasonable deadline. The tariffs were applied June 1. The pretext which allowed the tariffs to be applied under the existing NAFTA convention was "national security is threatened". This was taken as an insult by the Canadians. The US already has extremely high prices for aluminum and steel, and this is a contributing factor to America's loss of auto manufacturing, which is a key issue in the NAFTA renegotiations. — Metaphysician Undercover

I guess we'll just have to see whether a tactic will work or whether there should never been such a tactic.

I'd rather not think about Trump in the nude, thanks.

What kind of tactic is that, to break an agreement with your closest ally on the claim that they are a threat to national security?

The present American economic problems are not caused by foreigners, they are caused by the greed of American money handlers, bankers, brokers, insurance companies and the lot. This became very evident a decade ago. No action has been taken to stem that greed, as an increasing number of Americans slip from the category of "haves" into the category of "have-nots". Trump rhetoric targets those on the border between "haves" and "have-nots", the so-called middle class, as they are vulnerable to the fear of sliding into the "have-nots". The rhetoric falsely directs their attention toward foreigners as the cause of American economic problems, when in reality the problems are caused by greedy Americans.

Along with insulting the allies, the tariffs will only increase the price of consumer goods. And with no policies in place to stem the tide of greed, wages will not increase to match the price increases. The result of that "tactic" which is derived from the false presumption that foreigners are the cause of America's economic problems, will be more Americans sliding into the category of "have-nots".

<strokes beard> Yes, I zee, I zee... Now, tell me about your father. Did he give you mit zee huggings and touching? How did zat make you feel?

(Edit: well, now this comment is (even more) nonsensical without the Marcus LB hilarious post about naked Trump. I’ll leave it here for the sake of posterior. What level of literalness the OP was written is unknown to me. But funny is funny.)

What kind of tactic is that, to break an agreement with your closest ally on the claim that they are a threat to national security?

The present American economic problems are not caused by foreigners, they are caused by the greed of American money handlers, bankers, brokers, insurance companies and the lot. — Metaphysician Undercover

American money handlers etc blah blah?

It's a global cabal. There is no "ally of America" when one looks at the current Canadian "leadership".

Trudeau is merely just another global bankers cabal stooge, as Obama was (and is).

America went a long time ago. Some, or many, just want it back.

Ah.. the herd assembles, stones in hand, let us wait for philosophy to arrive.

She is slow because she is old, but be patient she is on her way.

M

Streetlight has cast the most effective stone.

The 'wall' is built and old philosophy will not be coming to the party.

M

My, my. Temer temper. — raza

Just calling it as it is. It's refreshing. Also, learn to spell.

Only clueless Trump supporters can think these are great ideas. But they tell clearly just on what kind of level Trump truly operates. — ssu

A little while ago I asked about Trump supporters. Let's see, he is a "clueless idiot" voted in and supported by "clueless supporters". I have an answer now.

"Clueless" means that they are simply uninformed, not unintelligent. That being the case, I wonder which news network they went to to become "uninformed". FOX, CNN, The Real News Network or maybe INFORWARS.???

So he could say things bluntly that past presidents would only express gently.
— ArguingWAristotleTiff

Like wut? (Direct quotes pls) — Maw

“It’s very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia where we’re supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to Russia,” -President Trump

"If President Obama had crossed his stated Red Line In The Sand, the Syrian disaster would have ended long ago! Animal Assad would have been history!" - President Trump

What's an example of a shit storm on the world's stage in the last 30 years that America solved (that it didn't create). — Maw

Like most shit storms, there was more than one cause and more than one solution.
The USA has lead the charge for world health crisis (Eboli and HIV), the USA set to arrive to help in world disasters such as Tsunamis and Earth Quakes. The USA is not only involved in military theaters despite your suggestions.

That Trump "tells it like it is", is chicanery in the same vein as Bush being the guy you'd "rather have a beer with", or Reagan being sooo charismatic and funny. — Maw

If that is true Maw, then why such an uproar to everything Trump suggests? :chin:

When you try to do it on your own you tend to mess it up, Tiff. That's just a fact, most recently illustrated by Iraq. So, instead of being proud about messing things up as you seem to be, you ought to show a little humility about it. Then maybe we can come together under a common banner and make things work. It won't happen though until you can face up to reality and drop the fantasy that your interventions have been heroic in recent history — Baden

Baden, I am not sure why you continue to bash my faith in my country, which is a collective of it's citizens, when I have told you that the USA should NOT step in to help anymore. Not only is it not appreciated but we as the USA are resented as a result of it. :angry:

Your attitude towards the American government is a perfect example of the quote: :100:
No good deed goes unpunished.

Irelands up! :up: You might want to use the batters cage to warm up for the "NEXT" catastrophe because, IF and when America is called, we have been told from the world over, not to answer. :zip:

How would you define "honest" here, true to how he feels at that moment? If he feels like this is the right thing to say, whether or not it's true, he'll say it. And this is being honest? — Metaphysician Undercover

You ask a very interesting question about honesty. I do define him being honest, as being true to how he feels at that moment and I have no doubt that he will speak it and that is being as honest with ones self as one can be. Do I think he would knowingly say something that he knows is not true? Nah, I don't think it is his style and for what purpose would he lie?

Just an aside... I know we all identify with our respective homelands to a certain degree. But saying “you” and “us” when referring to countries might possibly be getting too personal. Example, the Canadian government did this or that. Joe who lives in Toronto did not do it. He may or may not support it, but unless he is a high ranking official, he didn’t do it. Similarly, as a sports fan... “we” did not beat the New York Yankees yesterday. The Cleveland team did, and unfortunately I had nothing to do with it despite being ready to fill in at shortstop. FWIW. :wink:

Anyone watch the press conference with Trump and Putin? How'd it go?

Trump aggressively confronted Putin about election interference. Just kidding! :lol:

Russia's actions were hostile, but it's a little ridiculous to whine about it. It pales in comparison to the kind of intrusion the US has accomplished all over the world in the last 50 years.

We should shut up and learn to defend ourselves. If congressional Republicans don't want to do that, then we should just shut up.

? It's not about bashing your faith. You can flag wave all you want if it makes you happy. But I'm interested in a fact-based conversation. So tell me, what mess have you cleaned up, what catastrophe have you dealt with in a positive way in recent history, in the last fifty years let's say, when you've gone it alone (without UN authorization)? In other words what are you talking about, what good deeds are you referring to?

If that is true Maw, then why such an uproar to everything Trump suggests? :chin: — ArguingWAristotleTiff

There is a difference between 'Telling It Like It Is' as saying something true albeit blunt, and 'Telling It Like It Is' as saying something false and blunt. Obviously the uproar stems from the fact that Trump is mostly in the latter category.

“It’s very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia where we’re supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to Russia,” -President Trump — ArguingWAristotleTiff

This is an example of Trump taking a complicated geo-political subject and transforming it into a coarse accusation that merely alienates allies. Trump is atrocious at diplomacy. Outside of the United States, Russia is the largest exporter of natural gases, and from a geographical/financial pov it makes sense that importing Russian gas to Germany and Europe is cheaper than importing it from the US. Obama also told the EU it needed to reduce dependence on Russian gas and there were talks of a trade agreement. What solutions do you think Trump will propose that the EU? Do you think Germany should simply drop Russia as a source for energy, effectively dropping its energy usage by ~18%? You think the EU will happily accept Trump's proposals now that he's alienated Germany saying that they are "totally controlled by Russia", which is a blunt lie, not to mention that fact that he is objectively more coarse with our allies than with Russia. There are more things in heaven and earth, Tiff, than are dreamt of in Trump's philosophy. He's one dimensional.

Like most shit storms, there was more than one cause and more than one solution. The USA has lead the charge for world health crisis (Eboli and HIV), the USA set to arrive to help in world disasters such as Tsunamis and Earth Quakes. The USA is not only involved in military theaters despite your suggestions. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Sure, but these are only examples of natural crises (not all of which occur on the "world's stage"). Funny you should mention Ebola because the United States' response was highly criticized, and the United States very arguable worsened the initial response to AIDS thanks to the insouciance of the Reagan administration. I'm not suggesting that the US shouldn't provide aid to foreign countries, but this idea that the world would be far less better off without the United States sounds like jingoism, because in many areas around the world our interference has been detrimental, so it's no surprise that many countries are skeptical of US involvement.

I mean just within the last week Trump called the EU a "foe", criticized May then lied about it, said that Germany was controlled by Russia, and said immigrants are destroying EU culture, called journalists the "enemies of the people", and praised Putin. I mean these are all blunt things, but is this the type of leader the US needs? What do you even think about all this @ArguingWAristotleTiff?

In the first meeting, Trump winks at Putin. Then during the press conference he takes Putin's side over his own country on election meddling. Traitor or buffoon? As usual, who knows?

I'm not a trumpite, but I know that you are spinning the facts. That accomplishes nothing.

https://www.newsweek.com/what-treason-trump-putin-1026808

"Among those lambasting Trump was former CIA Director John Brennan, who said the performance from the United States president was “nothing short of treasonous.”

Meanwhile, Abby Huntsman, a Fox News host and daughter of the U.S. ambassador to Russia, John Huntsman said that “no negotiation is worth throwing your own people and country under the bus.”

When even Fox News are getting on the treason train...

More:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/16/republican-lawmakers-call-trump-putin-meeting-shameful/788752002/

After the news broadcast from Finland, former U.S. Rep. Joe Walsh tweeted that Trump "speaks more favorably of Putin. TRUMP WON'T STAND WITH HIS OWN COUNTRY. That's it. That should be the final straw. It is for me."

In a subsequent tweet, Walsh said: "Trump was a traitor today. I cannot & will not support a traitor. No decent American should."

Hard to unite Fox News, CNN, Dems and Republicans but that that press conference was an embarrassment and possibly treasonous seems to have done the trick.

Well if you are too lazy to expand I won't stop you.

I hear Putin was asked if he had compromising material on Trump and he skirted the issue rather than answer with a "no".

Russia's actions were hostile, but it's a little ridiculous to whine about it. — frank

What?

I explained in that post.

You said some words, but I don't think they're an explanation.

Well if you are too lazy to expand I won't stop you. — Maw

You wont stop me from being lazy? :blush:

I've actually got a busy day today. This is fun time.