What has any of that got to do with whether or not the issue of whether or not God exists is a matter of fact? It looks like a giant red herring. — S
can you try another path ?? — Rank Amateur
ah here is something I can build on. The fact that you do not find it reasonable is absolutely fine with me - quite you prerogative - and I respect your position as above. Expanding your belief into the general is maybe where we come apart. and requires support.
simple because S does not find an argument reasonable is not in anyway proof is not reasonable.
seems we are arguing more about the definition of reasonable than theism — Rank Amateur
How do you determine that an argument is reasonable? — Isaac
Well, this is kind of silly, because none of us can step outside of ourselves, can we? — S
That certainly doesn't mean that I must be at fault, or that anything goes, or anything of the sort. — S
No, it could be based on reasoned belief as opposed to faith. I reject your criteria for what counts as faith. Reasoned belief is based on sufficient reason, and sufficient reason doesn't have to be definitive reason, i.e. certainty. — S
just go back to the original argument - it is quite simple and clear. If you have a another reasoned and logical objection - i am happy to address - but we have now entered into some meaningless do loop - — Rank Amateur
of course we can - i can see, appreciate and find all kinds of arguments reasonable that I don't agree with. — Rank Amateur
as above - there is no fault whatsoever in believing what one want to believe ( within some level of reason) - I have never taken a position that atheism if wrong or unreasonable - and until I can make such a case I won't. — Rank Amateur
Either you think that theism is the "most" reasonable or you're being unreasonable by not withholding judgement. — S
The reasoned belief is that the parachute is packed correctly. Venturing something on that belief - the jump - is an act of faith. Why is venturing something on the basis of a reasoned belief not a suitable definition of an act of faith? — AJJ
i like this way of looking at it. It is an act of faith when an action requires 100 % commitment and the consequences are a matter of some probability.
when you drive home - driving the car requires 100% commitment - you either drive home or you don't. There is some chance you could die in a crash on the way home. Driving the car home is an act of faith. It is reasonable you will make it home, you always have before - but it is not a fact you will make it home - it is a matter of probability. — Rank Amateur
Right, well what you’re calling “an act of reasoned belief” is what I mean by the word “faith”. So whatever your own definition of faith is will be beside the point. I can simply call being a Christian “an act of reasoned belief” and mean the same thing. — AJJ
Please note, this is NOT I repeat NOT an argument that God is, it is an argument that theism is not outside fact or reason. — Rank Amateur
Sound reasoning in support of my definition you mean? — AJJ
The Kalam Cosmological Argument gives a sound enough rational reason for believing in God. Its premises, though rebutted, have not been refuted and so are reasonable to believe, and therefore the conclusion too. — AJJ
If theism is not outside of what's factual, then it must be within the domain of what's factual, meaning that it's a matter of fact. But this is what you've denied. — S
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