If we’re going to value the lives of our fellow human beings at all, then we must do so from the beginning. Otherwise people, when it suits them, will come up with arbitrary reasons we’re allowed to end life, as they do. — AJJ
But just because I assume them does not mean that they're true — tim wood
or that in virtue of my assuming you are compelled to accept them as true. — tim wood
you would understand that you are compelled to acknowledge that the sky is filled with purple flying unicorns. — tim wood
Well, it is not just a matter of willing, but rather logically willing it to be universal law where doing the opposite would result in the breakdown of society. — Noah Te Stroete
I’m saying a human being’s life starts at its conception — AJJ
No it doesn’t.
Irrelevant to my case. — AJJ
I was never the only person who judges it to be wrong, so it was never wrong only for me. There were always others. And you're one of them, surely. So why do I need to convince you? — S
As to FOV, some time ago I asked what it is and how it is assessed. A problem is that you refer to it as a "future" consideration. I don't know what that is. I think what you have in mind is a present value. That is, at this moment, according to you (near as I can tell) there exists a quantifier that expresses the present value of your future. Let's suppose there is. What does it mean? How do you calculate it? And finally, what difference does it make - who should care? And while you're working this out, remember that your guy Marquis did not do any of this. — tim wood
In, the 20th century, easily a billion people had negative FOVs. But what would it mean? Answer: it would mean nothing. Any decision based on an FOV would needs be based on other considerations as well. — tim wood
The loss of this FOV is that which "ultimately makes killing wrong." Don't you mean that it is the loss of the potential, the possibilities, of the future, that is part of what makes killing wrong? — tim wood
t forget that it is not the killing itself that is the problem, but the cause, reason, and circumstances of the killing. — tim wood
And finally, if you're correct and this FOV is the parameter, the measure, you claim it is, then what prevents us from killing those with a bad FOV? — tim wood
Implicit in this notion of an FOV is the idea that the victim suffers the loss. How? The victim is dead. Please make clear how the victim suffers the loss of his or her FOV. In death, that which can suffer ceases to be. — tim wood
It's empty foolish assertion, empty foolish argument, and empty foolish conclusions. And all unnecessary. I'm of a mind that Marquis knows this now and knew it when he wrote it. The people who buy it either are foolish - "Hey, people have an FOV, no more abortion!" Or knowing its failures and flaws, have notwithstanding adapted it to their own ends to persuade the ignorant and thoughtless. — tim wood
This is non-responsive.
The question was asked so that you could provide your basis so that I would know what you relied upon to determine that infanticide was murder. Whatever principles you rely upon should be usable to determine the outcome of unclear cases. This, of course, assumes your principles are logical and not simply emotive, but if they are emotive, then I'd have expected you to say that in response to the question I posed, as opposed to simply posing another question of your own. — Hanover
Absolutely not, in a free society. It's enough she want one. Whether she needs one or not may be someone's business: hers, her family's, the father's, her doctor's, but definitely not yours. Suppose it were yours. What account could you give for any attitude you might have about it, much less any decision about it? — tim wood
I'm not saying abortion should be banned but it needs to be monitored and regulated for the benefit of women themselves. — TheMadFool
Hm. Yes, men need to make sure women use abortion only when appropriate. :down: — Banno
Women will lose a little bit of their humanity if we make abortion completely free. Don't you think? To say abortion is a choice that can be exercised freely is tantamount to saying the fetus is nothing and dispensable. — TheMadFool
There are women who want children. They value life and its origins in the fetus. According to you they must be sick in some way. — TheMadFool
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