We definitely depend on statements that attempt to mediate the subject into objective understanding. But this mediation is indirectly related to the subject's actual existence. So with the mediation we lose the essence of subjectivity by making it something objective. — Merkwurdichliebe
So I have a subjective world (my world) and you have yours (your world). Where we agree, we call that the objective world. — frank
But what's up with agreement? Do we agree on portions of worlds? Or do we agree on statements? — frank
How could you ever know that you agree, as opposed to appearing to agree...?
After all, all you have is your perceptions of agreement... — Banno
You may have noticed throughout your life that you uncovered beliefs you hadn't realized you had, and that you may have replaced with different beliefs. You may have noticed also that depending on what you believe, your world appears different (for instance your world is much different depending on whether you believe in an afterlife or whether you believe you cease experiencing anything when you die, whether you believe animals have feelings and consciousness or whether you believe only humans do, whether you believe things exist independently when you don't see them or not, ...). — leo
But again, this is not a thread about such things. The best you can do here is to serve as an example for those who are discussing subjectivity and objectivity. — Banno
"The subject" - the individual? Merkwurdichliebe? — Banno
"objective understanding" - so now we add objective understanding to the objective world, without setting out what we are doing. — Banno
"actual existence" - as opposed to existence per se? — Banno
"the essence of subjectivity" - what subjectivity is in every possible world? What else? — Banno
"making it something objective" - we can make the subjective, objective? — Banno
I'm trying to help you understand. — Merkwurdichliebe
An objective point of view is like a map or a schematic. The viewer seems to be stationed outside if the world that's being observed.
A subjective viewpoint has the viewer positioned centrally in the world. We all know what that's like. Stop thinking and look: that's the doorway to subjectivity. — frank
Objective: not dependent on the mind for existence; actual.
"a matter of objective fact"
synonyms: factual, actual, real, empirical, verifiable, existing, manifest
"the world of objective knowledge"
Yes. I don't think your use reflects how the term is commonly used.You are here using "objective" in a way that differs from the one set out in the OP. — Banno
"I prefer vanilla ice" is a subjective statement in accord with the use set out in the OP. It is true only if the speaker does have a certain preference.
But it is also a statement of fact. — Banno
It is especially important, therefore, to keep an eye on their use in mundane contexts. — Banno
Certain statements are labeled subjective because they set out an individuals taste or feelings. In contrast, other statements are called objective, as they do not set out an individual's taste, feelings or opinions.
So that I prefer vanilla to chocolate ice-cream is a subjective fact - or if you prefer, it is a subjective truth. It's truth is dependent on my own taste.
That this text is written in English is not dependent on my own taste or feelings. Hence it is an objective truth. — Banno
don't allow the notions of subjectivity and objectivity to take on any more significance.
in particular, don't pretend that there are either only subjective facts, or that there are only objective facts. — Banno
If some truth can be said in the first person, it's likely to be a subjective fact. — Banno
Yawn. Objective just means reproducible under fixed conditions. Nothing more. The blather about mind and feelings and independence and perception and reality and truth and so on is just noise. — StreetlightX
The sooner people realize objective and subjective do not form an antithetical pair, the better. — StreetlightX
You could say that the first is the assumed stance of naturalism, which assumes the perspective of the subject, attempting to arrive at as objective a view as possible, through eliminating everything other than what can be quantified (subject of Thomas Nagel's book The View from Nowhere.)
The second is suggestive of phenomenology, which takes into account the ultimately subjective nature of existence, but tries to do so in a way which doesn't fall into mere subjectivity. — Wayfarer
Could you please elaborate? — Merkwurdichliebe
Well if objective just means reproducible under fixed conditions, does the opposite of that mean ‘subjective’? — StreetlightX
Some conditions simply cannot be fixed, as with, say, large-scale economies or large-scale societies, in which reproducibility is hard, if not impossible to come by. — StreetlightX
It has connotations of ‘from a first-person POV’, and it used loosely in that manner, but it’s most useless as a philosophical term of art. Everytime someone uses the word ‘subjective’, the default assumption ought to be that they have no idea what they are talking about, unless they prove otherwise. — StreetlightX
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