I'm simply saying that if one makes true statements about the source of their own moral convictions then s/he cannot be sensibly said to be morally dumbfounded... — creativesoul
There is no necessary causal or logical relation between what we experience, and what we think of that experience. — Merkwurdichliebe
Well, just ask an athiest is God has meaning, then ask if God exists. — Merkwurdichliebe
Well, just ask an athiest is God has meaning, then ask if God exists.
— Merkwurdichliebe
I would answer yes to both. The explication would satisfy both questions. There is no difference between belief in and/or about God and God. — creativesoul
All experience is existentially dependent upon a thinking/believing creature. — creativesoul
All experience is existentially dependent upon a thinking/believing creature.
— creativesoul
And is thought/belief existentially dependent upon experience? Chicken-Egg — Merkwurdichliebe
Ethical conversation is always prescriptive, the ought. — Merkwurdichliebe
In this scenario, this particular state of mind (the morally dumbfouned) is in relation to the particular state of mind of the other(s) [...] Ethical conversation is always prescriptive, the ought. "True" doesn't matter, only reason. — Merkwurdichliebe
Ethical conversation is always prescriptive, the ought.
— Merkwurdichliebe
That's not true. We've been involved in descriptive ethical/moral conversation throughout. I think that that may be where some of the issues are arising from. I'm talking about moral things as a kind, and others are talking about moral things as a manner of expressing their approval/agreement as compared/contrasted to immoral. — creativesoul
Evolutionarily... I would think that amoebas are incapable of either. — creativesoul
Hume skirted around an important aspect of thought/belief.
Expectation. Seems to be adequate for concluding belief and drawing some line between stimulus/response and behaviour 'driven' by thought/belief. — creativesoul
Of what use are those notions [intuitive, non-linguistic, subconscious] in this context?
— creativesoul
Yes, me wants to know too. — Merkwurdichliebe
I love philosophers who are courageous enough to speak oddly on occasion. — Merkwurdichliebe
You are a brave soul, Merk. — praxis
Dumbfounding is indicative of an implicit evaluation or conditioned response that is beneath conscious awareness. — praxis
Regarding the source of morals, a distinction might be made between our innate condition, early pre-linguistic childhood conditioning, cultural conditioning (part of childhood conditioning), and whatever conditioning we might intentionally impose on ourselves. — praxis
We, however, are in agreement. The descriptive conversion in which we are presently engaged is meta-ethical - it stands detached from prescriptive ethical considerations. — Merkwurdichliebe
Good. We are involved in ethical conversation and it is not prescriptive... yet! Groundwork is crucial. We are getting there. — creativesoul
I see a general agreement over the basic framework we have established here. We have succeeded, at least, in establishing a reasonably sensible working theory on the source of morals. There is definitely more to figure out, but this is not a bad achievement here on TPF, despite whether we've actually achieved anything of significance. If nothing else, we will be better prepared when we enter into any philosophical discussion on ethics. — Merkwurdichliebe
Where is the groundwork most required at this point. — Merkwurdichliebe
What I'm doing is attempting to establish an adequate basis of true statements about morals, including their origen as a means to provide the best universal basis from which to establish a moral code. — creativesoul
We still need to discuss power over people and further parse out the necessity of our being interdependent social creatures. Those who write the rules have tremendous power. Legitimized moral belief. — creativesoul
What do you find that still needs parsed prior to comparing/contrasting which rules ought be maintained and/or implemented and which ought not? — creativesoul
but the novelty is holding your attention just to see if it gleans anything new and trustworthy/dependable/convincing. — creativesoul
What I'm doing is attempting to establish an adequate basis of true statements about morals, including their origen as a means to provide the best universal basis from which to establish a moral code.
— creativesoul
I like it. I will focus on this as the common goal (in addition to my own, personal, sadomasochist, selfish reasons :joke: — Merkwurdichliebe
Funny you say that. There are other benefits of establishing a universal criterion. It comes in quite handy when we talk about how to compare/contrast competing conceptions. — creativesoul
It's as though we have to enter the same stadium if we are going to compete in a contest of bocce ball. — Merkwurdichliebe
The analogy doesn't quite take out endeavor into proper account. I like watching people play games even sometimes when I do not want to play. — creativesoul
It's also quite useful to tame down rhetorical drivel regarding claims and/or implications/entailment that any and/or all 'definitions' and/or conceptions are on equal footing. The groundwork has already been put down to conclude that we can get some definitions wrong in a vey specific sense of being "wrong". — creativesoul
It's begun being laid to establish common sense conclusions about existential dependency and timeframes. — creativesoul
I've some senior graduation ceremonies to attend in real life this weekend. Great 'kid'. — creativesoul
We still need to discuss power over people and further parse out the necessity of our being interdependent social creatures. Those who write the rules have tremendous power. Legitimized moral belief. — creativesoul
1)what is the predominant moral authority?
2)what is the primary source of that moral authority?
My instinct tells me: 1)consensus, 2)history.
First, consensus with parent, whose morality was developed over a period of history, which, in turn, began through consensus with parent...ad infinitum. — Merkwurdichliebe
Perhaps we should approximate where the notion of authority first arrises. — Merkwurdichliebe
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.