• Virgo Avalytikh
    178
    What, if anything, could constitute an effective argument for libertarianism? ‘Libertarianism’ in the modern right-wing sense (a philosophy of private ownership and non-aggression) has had more objections levelled against it than one could possibly count. One may conclude, having levelled one such objection, that the legitimacy or at least the necessity of the State, or of collective ownership, is thereby vindicated. Not so, logically.

    Suppose, for example, that one were to raise an objection against the libertarian position, and that this objection hits the mark: perhaps there really are problems which would plague a system of private ownership and non-aggression, and that it would be genuinely extremely difficult to deal with the problem from within that system. Suppose, however, that this same problem, or one closely analogous to it, would still exist even in a system of collective or State ownership. Perhaps the problem would be even worse under such a system. Would this be an effective argument against libertarianism? Clearly not. Or, suppose that a system of collective or State ownership does have the exclusive means to deal with the problem at hand. But, such a system is also plagued by its own unique problems, problems which outweigh those which we would face in a ‘libertarian’ world, and which that libertarian world would be better equipped to deal with. Again, the argument would fail.

    The point here is this: simply to point out a problem or potential problem in a system is not in itself an effective critique of it. If one’s own alternative system also does not have the means to deal with the problem, or if the alternative creates far greater problems even as it deals effectively with the first, the critique is unsuccessful. Recognising this fact allows us to determine, in advance, what an effective argument for libertarianism could look like.

    Libertarianism is a non-utopian philosophy. It is perhaps misleading to think of it as a ‘system’, since it does not propose any kind of structural model for society. It seeks simply to lift away, as far as is possible, the constraints which prevent individuals from pursuing their own interests, on the understanding that a world of peaceful voluntarism is a good and just world in which to live. Whether the recognition of private ownership and the right not to be aggressed against would produce such a situation is, of course, open to dispute. But this, notionally, is the goal. Now, libertarianism faces problems. People are imperfect. We (far be it from me to exclude myself from this) are ignorant, greedy, liable to corruption. Would problems result from this, in a libertarian world? No doubt they would. And, no doubt they would abound in any alternative system, too.

    Suppose that it would be possible to argue the following: it is conceded that a system of private ownership and non-aggression would face difficulties, perhaps many, and perhaps great; however, for any alternative system one might wish to propose, that alternative will either (a) face the very same problems, or (b) face different problems, which are greater, or more numerous, or both. This argument, if in fact it could be made, would, as far as I can tell, constitute a persuasive defence of the libertarian position. Can such an argument be made effectively? I believe that it very probably can.

    In 2018, economist David D. Friedman came to Oxford university to give a talk on market failure. Having reviewed and digested the substance of his argument, I believe him to have hit upon a vindication of libertarianism which is elegant in its simplicity. For this reason, I would like to reconstruct what I take to be the high points of his presentation, and make some application. Friedman’s thesis, in brief, is as follows.

    The basic argument for liberty is that, in a system of private ownership, individual persons are generally best acquainted with their own situations, and are generally the immediate bearers of both the costs and the benefits of their own actions. It stands to reason, then, that people should be left alone, as far as possible, to pursue their own separate interests without interference. So far, so good. But there is a problem. The problem is ‘market failure’. Market failure is defined by Friedman as a situation wherein each individual acts correctly in his/her own interests, taking the course of action which maximises the benefit and minimises the cost to him/herself, and yet the net result is that everybody is worse off. Moreover, such can most certainly occur in a free-market situation. Non-excludable ‘public goods’ not being produced because they are insufficiently profitable is one prominent example.

    One may argue, then, that either an agency of coercion (i.e. a State) or an alternative system of ownership (collective ownership, with a democratic decision-making process), is justified, on the grounds that it corrects these problems of market failure: either a State may coerce individuals, via a confiscationary levy (taxation), to fund a ‘public good’, or else the collective may decide as a unit to fund a cause from which everybody benefits. On the face of it, the anti-libertarian argument looks compelling. A system of private ownership and non-aggression generates market failure, especially in its failure to produce public goods, and the alternatives correct the problem by being able to produce public goods more easily. Is this decisive?

    No, says Friedman, and the reason is simple. Contrary to what its name might suggest, ‘market failure’ does not only plague what we would ordinarily call ‘the free market’. It is any situation in which individual rationality is not conducive to group rationality in the final analysis, and the State is itself subject to this very phenomenon. Friedman’s defence is to concede that a system of private ownership may well be subject to certain problems of market failure. But so is the State. Indeed, Friedman asserts that, whereas market failure is a rarity in the private market, it is commonplace in the political market, and with far worse results. Moreover, I believe Friedman’s argument can be strengthened further. Though his main target is the State itself, I believe that most of his argument is equally applicable to even a directly democratic decision-making process. In a nutshell: whatever objection might be levelled against the free market, the very same objection, or else some other objection of even greater force, may be levelled against the alternative. If he is right, then this would satisfy our criterion for an effective libertarian defence.

    What is the cause of market failure? According to Friedman, it is caused by my taking an action such that the benefits go to me and the costs go to other people, or my not taking an action because the costs would go to me and the benefits would go to other people. Immediately, the whole of the political process faces a problem: virtually everyone in the entire political process takes actions, most of the costs and benefits of which go to people other than themselves. It stands to reason, then, that market failure is commonplace in the political sphere. Getting the majority of people to act in favour of the common good is going to be virtually impossible. Certainly, it cannot be expected to happen reliably.

    To quote Friedman directly:

    ‘The voter who makes himself well-informed in order to know who to vote for provides benefits mostly to other members of his polity. The legislator who passes a bill is producing both costs and benefits for other people. The lobbyist who gets a bill passed is producing benefits for his customers, and will sensibly ignore any costs imposed on people who are not his customers. And the judges who make decisions, who in the Anglo-American system make a good deal of the law by setting precedents, are setting precedents whose costs and benefits are almost entirely borne by other people. It follows that there is no reason to expect political actors to take the actions that maximise net-benefit for all.’

    The common-sense or ‘naïve’ model of democracy is that our elected representatives will reliably do the right thing because, if they don’t, we vote them out. But in order for this to work, voters have to be well-informed. Unfortunately, it is simply not rational for any individual voter to take it upon him/herself to become well-informed. Suppose you live in a society, virtually all the voters in which are well-informed already. Probably, then, everybody else apart from you can already be relied upon to elect the right person. Your vote will have a negligible chance of making a difference. Or suppose you live in a society in which virtually no voter is well-informed. Here, again, your vote is hardly going to make a difference, no matter how well-informed you choose to become. So it looks like, regardless of what everybody else does, taking it upon yourself to become a well-informed voter costs you more than it benefits you. This is the case in any kind of collective decision-making process, whether ‘representative’ or ‘direct’. From the perspective of any given individual, it just makes more sense to be an ignorant voter than an informed voter, because becoming an informed voter produces more costs (to you) than benefit (to you).

    Now, the natural response is to say, ‘But if everybody does that, we are all worse off. And if everybody becomes well-informed, we are all better off.’ Just so. The problem, of course, is that I don’t control what ‘everybody’ does. I only control what I do. This is why this particular ‘market’ has failed: everybody acts correctly in their own individual interests, and everybody is worse off. What is more, such a failure is implicit in the democratic process itself. It is ‘baked into the cake’.

    Friedman enumerates several more examples, the details of which I will not dwell on here. He argues, persuasively I think, that a collective decision-making process (in distinction from a private ownership system) will tend to consider short time-horizons at the expense of longer time-horizons, and will tend to benefit concentrated special-interest groups at the expense of society as a whole.

    But what of private ownership, and its own market failure problems? I would simply say that these should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, and that the market in its endless ingenuity tends to find ways around the problem. Many so-called ‘public goods’ problems have been effectively solved by tying the good together with an advertisement and giving away the bundle, the source of profit to the service-provider coming from advertising revenue (this is how private radio broadcasts can exist). My undergraduate dissertation was an investigation into the viability of ‘assurance contracts’ which, I believe, have enormous potential (when properly implemented) to deal with most public-goods problems, and go a long way towards effectively eliminating market failure in a system of private ownership.

    My conclusion? No doubt unpalatable to many. The basic argument for liberty is still a good one: leave people alone, let them engage with one another by way of peaceful voluntarism, and generally this makes the world a better place than if there is an agency of coercion invading their lives, or a vast collective into which each individual is effectively swallowed up. Is a system of private ownership and non-aggression flawed? Yes, but not uniquely so. Whatever problems a libertarian world might face will also plague the non-libertarian alternative, but with far greater frequency, and with graver results.
  • Reshuffle
    28
    In rural pockets of PA, the Amish and “ Pennsylvania Dutch” folks abound. Mennonites, their multi-dimensional brethren, circumnavigate nearby.

    You can take an easy Sunday drive from, say, Philly, and in little more than an hour or so observe their customs, habitat and culture.

    What you’ll observe elementally is a return to the distant past. They drive horses and buggies, wear modest attire and live in farms or plain houses. They like to live off the land. They are a type of cloistered sect (with exceptions), as indifferent to modernity, technology and social media as is possible.

    It isn’t a reach to say they are a libertarian paradigm by your standards. Private ownership and non-aggression are the sine qua non of their social order. They seek to be left alone, pacifistic (and, well, spiritually guided.)

    They have managed, somehow, to endure. Their secrets solitude and sanctity remain. But when I see them, while a part of me wonders what hidden majesty they might own insofar as dutifully rejecting or ignoring social advances with putative success, I ask myself if they are somehow simply beneficial heirs of that which they eschew; I.e., the “State” and authority.

    What would their libertarian enclave be without the very State entity which safeguards and protects them? Who amongst them, as they turn the other metaphorical cheek, has secured their liberty and defended their desire to remain passive?

    It’s an easier thing to live in peace when the other guy is taking the bullets.
  • Maw
    2.7k
    Constructing a complex socio-politico-economical system that substantively affects human lives from the fiat of two abstract principles is the modus operandi of Libertarianism. Impossible to take seriously.
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k


    A few questions:

    How is the playing field leveled to start this utopia? Do we confiscate the Koch brothers’ assets and distribute them equally so we can all start from square one? Or do the Koch brothers get to keep their assets which they gained through state-sanctioned laws when this utopia is started? Who pays for the infrastructure? Who pays the workers to build the infrastructure? Private capital? (This takes us back to the first and second questions above.) Who enforces private property rights? Private security? (This also takes us back to the first two questions.) If it’s a limited state that enforces contracts, then how is the state established?

    I expect All of these questions to be taken seriously and addressed in full.
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k


    If we all get to start off from square one with equal property, who’s to stop me from breaking Charles Koch’s teeth when I punch him in the mouth? Who’s going to run the jails?
  • Echarmion
    2.6k
    Is a system of private ownership and non-aggression flawed? Yes, but not uniquely so. Whatever problems a libertarian world might face will also plague the non-libertarian alternative, but with far greater frequency, and with graver results.Virgo Avalytikh

    Your argument so far does not support this conclusion though. What you have argued is that human psychology has general flaws which make it difficult for humans to act rationally, especially where the "common good" is concerned. That is common knowledge. What you have not argued is why a libertarian system purely relying on self-interest is the best system to address that problem.

    on the understanding that a world of peaceful voluntarism is a good and just world in which to live.Virgo Avalytikh

    This claim first requires justification.

    The basic argument for liberty is that, in a system of private ownership, individual persons are generally best acquainted with their own situations, and are generally the immediate bearers of both the costs and the benefits of their own actionsVirgo Avalytikh

    This, also, requires justification. I would argue that at least the second part is wrong. In an existing society, all actions affect other members of that society. The actions of the father affect the child. The actions of the employer the employee and vice versa. It is in the rational self interest of people to try to avoid the costs while bearing the benefits of their own actions. So it is a natural result of a "market".

    It follows that there is no reason to expect political actors to take the actions that maximise net-benefit for all.’Virgo Avalytikh

    But there is. Humans are not self-interest automatons but social animals. Moral considerations have weight with humans.
  • Virgo Avalytikh
    178


    Thanks for this.

    You note quite rightly that I justify a presumption in favour of liberty only very briefly. The primary reason is that it is not the main subject I wanted to address, the argument being concerned primarily with market failure. Few people, it seems to me, would say openly of themselves that they are ‘anti-liberty’. Maybe I am wrong about this. But I think that there is a widespread intuition that a world in which individuals have a substantial measure of freedom to pursue their own interests and satisfy their wants is preferable to a world in which, say, most people have the trajectory of their lives dictated to them by others. That a world in which most people are free is preferable to one in which most people are enslaved is a proposition that I didn’t feel the need to justify at any length. Maybe a project for another time. Rather, most people are sceptical of libertarianism, not because they are ‘anti-liberty’ as such, but because they believe that a system of peaceful voluntarism faces limitations which only an alternative (such as coercive Statism or collective ownership) can overcome. This is the subject I sought to address.

    If I were forced, however, to argue for a presumption in favour of liberty – if I were compelled, in other words, to answer the question ‘Why, in general, is liberty attractive? – I would appeal to two things, mainly. One is the nature of knowledge. Knowledge is de-centralised; it is specific to time and place, to specific situation. The reason why ‘Freaky Friday’ body-swap comedies make sense to us is because we realise that, if I were put in charge of your life for a day, and you of mine, we would probably both make a mess of things. I am most acquainted with my own life, and therefore best situated to make the best decisions for myself. This is only a generalisation, but the generalisation holds. I am a better judge of my own affairs than I am of yours. No one should trust me with running their life for a day. An elegant argument for liberty on the basis of the nature of knowledge may be found in Friedrich Hayek’s essay, ‘The Use of Knowledge in Society’, which everybody in the world should read (twice).

    The second argument I would make is that, in a system of private ownership, we generally bear the costs and benefits of our decisions. NB: I don’t say that no one else might be affected by our decisions. Moreover, I am once again only speaking in generalities. But, in general, it is the case that, as far as private ownership goes, one reaps what one sows. Consider the so-called ‘tragedy of the commons’. There is common land, ownership of which is shared by the community as a whole. Because nobody is individually responsible for its upkeep, it goes to ruin. If everybody other than me works to maintain the land, it is not necessary for me to join in and help, because the land will probably be kept to a suitable standard without me. On the other hand, if nobody else works to maintain the land, it still does not make sense for me to do so, for my work alone will make negligible difference, and it will require me to assume great costs while most of the benefit goes to others. This problem is typical of collective ownership.

    Now consider the private-property solution. Everybody, by some system or other (a topic for another day), has a piece of land, and is personally responsible for cultivating it. Someone who works the land to the full and gets the most out of it, (if he is permitted to keep what he produces) will receive the benefit from it, and therefore has a realistic incentive to be productive. Some people might cultivate their land only to some degree, producing less but also having more leisure. And somebody who adopts the same ethic of laziness that he did under collective ownership will starve. Moreover, when you and I engage in voluntary trade, we both benefit in net terms. That which I receive from you is of greater psychic value to me than that which I traded away, and ditto for you. Our decisions will, no doubt, ‘affect’ others to some degree, but we as individuals are the most immediate bearers of the costs and benefits of what we do when we deal in that which is our own, exclusively.

    This is the main reason why collectivism, not individualism, is ‘utopian’. Because of the problems of market failure which it is liable to generate, collectivism relies on individuals engaging in what is, in effect, self-sacrificial behaviour for the sake of the common good. Individualism makes no such assumption.

    As you point out, some people, perhaps many, might take it upon themselves to work for the common good, even at great cost to themselves. To which I would respond that, if such is the case, then there is no reason why this may not happen in a private-property system, too. We must have a fair and consistent standard, in our estimation of human nature. What one finds is that there is an excessive scepticism of human nature when it comes to considering the risks of private ownership, and an excessive optimism when considering the risks of collective ownership.

    Where does this leave us? Contrary to your objection, I believe that the argument does indeed support the conclusion. I have argued that there ought to be a presumption in favour of liberty, where liberty is defined in terms of private ownership and the absence of aggression. There are good reasons to think that this general posture is one which makes us better off than the alternatives (namely, being aggressed against by a coercive institution, or being a negligible element in a much larger collective). From here, the argument is that, while peaceful voluntarism does exhibit certain limitations in terms of what it can easily achieve, which I have grouped together under the category of ‘market failure’, the alternatives to peaceful voluntarism are themselves subject to market failure, though with far greater frequency, and with fewer possibilities to overcome it.
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    But, libertarianism suffers from an incurable problem, which can only be exacerbated if one were to implement it...The issue that I want to present can be called the 'level playing field problem'. Keep in mind that tabula rasa just doesn't apply here unless (in a perfect world) society was formed on a marooned island from scratch.

    The problem presents itself in the form of those already with a strategic advantage (patent trolls, monopolies, oligopolies, and everything that economics hates but has to deal with). One may begin to see the whole appeal of libertarianism by those nefarious elements that promote it.

    How would you resolve this issue?
  • Virgo Avalytikh
    178


    These are important problems (though, it is rather question-begging to prejudge them as 'incurable'), but, since they take us far afield from the topic of market failure, on which I have already written so much, I would sooner address them in a future thread, if it's all the same to you. I would simply point out that, since the State is itself is coercive monopoly, which is the very agency which allows for patent trolling and which controls the barriers to entering an industry (through licensure, for example), it is not a reasonable alternative.
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    These are important problems (though, it is rather question-begging to prejudge them as 'incurable'), but, since they take us far afield from the topic of market failure, on which I have already written so much, I would sooner address them in a future thread, if it's all the same to you.Virgo Avalytikh

    Not really question-begging. If you have any formal training in game theory, these are simply outcomes derived from inherent forces within human nature, as far as I am aware.

    I will wait for another thread then. Market failure is used so stipulativly here that I have no idea how to address it.
  • Virgo Avalytikh
    178


    I just assumed you were asking me in good faith. If you have prejudged it as incurable then there's scarcely any sense in having a discussion, is there? 'How would you solve this problem, which I am already persuaded is insoluble?' is poisoning the well entirely.
  • Shawn
    13.2k


    Yes, well I'm also not entirely sure if your ad hoc analysis is compatible with the notion that libertarianism would solve these pre-existing issues that already plague regulated markets. I think that's what I'm trying to point out.
  • Virgo Avalytikh
    178


    That's fine. As I said, stay tuned.
  • Virgo Avalytikh
    178


    I was in two minds as to whether to respond to this. The subject of the thread is market failure, and its significance vis-à-vis libertarianism and the State. I presented an argument that the concept of market failure vindicates the libertarian position, over against its alternatives. Given that you did not engage with the argument at all, I did not care much for:

    I expect All of these questions to be taken seriously and addressed in full.Noah Te Stroete

    In the first place, it is disappointing to see the libertarian position characterised as ‘utopian’, not only because I pointed out why it is not utopian, but also because it is simply prejudicial to assume that it is utopian in the grammar of your question. You have, in effect, prejudged it to be a practically impossible dream right from the start, so that any attempt to persuade you of its workability is doomed to fail.

    Not only this, but, since you raise many questions, each of which would take us off-topic and would require a separate discussion in its own right, and since you have conceded in another context that your knowledge of right-libertarian literature in limited, I feel that it would be best to direct you to some existing treatments of the issues you raise, rather than reinventing the wheel. The questions you pose are not particularly problematic, but require space to unpack, and I can do no better a job than, e.g., Friedman’s own discussion of how services like rights-enforcement and dispute-resolution would be provided in a voluntary society:

    http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf

    For more detailed discussions of property rights and how they are generated and allocated, especially in relation to criminality, the best treatment is Rothbard's:

    https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com/The%20Ethics%20of%20Liberty_0.pdf
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k
    That’s very cowardly.
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k


    Are my questions not relevant to your system? I’m trying to engage you in discussion.

    As to market failure, you fail to justify in your system that there would be “liberty,” and also how people would adhere to “non-aggression.”
  • Virgo Avalytikh
    178


    Maybe you're just accustomed to having things your own way, I don't know. But it's not unreasonable to expect some give-and-take here. There is plenty for you to be getting on with - I'm not sure what you are expecting of me, exactly. I suppose I could copy/paste material that is already easily accessible to you in the literature with which you are not familiar, but that doesn't help anybody in particular. You have raised, not so much challenges or problems for libertarianism, as much as queries about it, queries which are addressed in the material with which I have furnished you. In order to understand a position better, is the published work of its advocates not the first port of call? If, having become familiar with libertarianism, you have specific objections to its specific proposals, you are perfectly at liberty to start thread of your own. But, in the meantime, it seems as though the 'cowardice' only goes one way. The fact that you don't bother to deal with the substance of the argument I presented isn't even taken into account.
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k
    Maybe you're just accustomed to having things your own way, I don't know. But it's not unreasonable to expect some give-and-take here. There is plenty for you to be getting on with - I'm not sure what you are expecting of me, exactly. I suppose I could copy/paste material that is already easily accessible to you in the literature with which you are not familiar, but that doesn't help anybody in particular. You have raised, not so much challenges or problems for libertarianism, as much as queries about it, queries which are addressed in the material with which I have furnished you. In order to understand a position better, is the published work of its advocates not the first port of call? If, having become familiar with libertarianism, you have specific objections to its specific proposals, you are perfectly at liberty to start thread of your own. But, in the meantime, it seems as though the 'cowardice' only goes one way. The fact that you don't bother to deal with the substance of the argument I presented isn't even taken into account.Virgo Avalytikh

    My second set of concerns were raised. What is the libertarian definition of “liberty?” How do inherently aggressive humans fit into this system?

    These seem to be foundations of your argument about market failure. I will not accept your answer to defer to the experts.
  • Virgo Avalytikh
    178


    It's not a matter of appealing to authority. It's simply a matter of sending you ad fontes so as not to multiply material unnecessarily. Why do you need it to be 'filtered' through me in order for it to be palatable? Is all this not interesting to you?

    It is important that 'liberty' not be defined too specifically, at least initially, except to say that it is a general posture by which individuals are able to pursue their own interests and satisfy their separate goals. This, of course, must have clearly defined limits, but these limits must be worked through carefully, rather than prejudged, for fear of begging the question. Right-libertarians define these limits negatively, in terms of non-aggression against persons and property (persons, of course, really being just a specific kind of property).

    Unusually aggressive persons would, presumably, be criminals and rights-violators in any kind of society, be it Stateless or Stateless. So this is not a particularly libertarian problem.
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k


    I guess you’re right in questioning my interest in this topic. I’m not really interested enough to read the fundamental literature on the subject. I was just hoping you could provide me with some answers, so I could determine whether it was interesting enough to study further. As of now, to me it is not.

    We all have our personal tastes. I’m sorry that I bullied you.
  • JosephS
    108
    http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf

    For more detailed discussions of property rights and how they are generated and allocated, especially in relation to criminality, the best treatment is Rothbard's:

    https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com/The%20Ethics%20of%20Liberty_0.pdf
    Virgo Avalytikh

    Thank you for this. You'd mentioned these two authors in a previous thread and I put them on my reading list. Having them available via pdf is preferable to having to go to Amazon.
  • Virgo Avalytikh
    178


    No problem. Though I should say, there is a more recent and much expanded 3rd edition of Friedman, though you'll have to pay for that one.

    Also, virtually everything Rothbard wrote is available for free at mises.org
  • ssu
    8.5k
    One basic problem with the theory of the free market is that even if it comes close to describing reality, it doesn't get the cigar. What the global markets are absolutely dominated are oligopolies and oligopolistic competition: thousands of smaller actors exist yes, but only ten or so large companies exist that simply dominate the market. Basically in every market there is. As libertarianism can be accredited to make good critique about state created monopolies and things as disasterous as centrally planned socialism, it hasn't in my view made such a compelling explanation how we get nearly in every market an oligopoly.

    What is the cause of market failure? According to Friedman, it is caused by my taking an action such that the benefits go to me and the costs go to other people, or my not taking an action because the costs would go to me and the benefits would go to other people.Virgo Avalytikh
    Sound politically convenient. Yet is it really so simple?

    I purpose an a mind experiment: Let's assume a new of technology emerges and creates a new market, where every major actor in the market is an optimist and a believer in "the cause". This aggregate optimism will create a mania and the stock prices of this new industry will shoot to the moon...until even your old aunt has invested in the 'new thing' and there is nobody left to buy at such astronomical prices and hence the prices collapse bursting the 'speculative bubble'. The crash will be then seen as a market failure.

    Yet was it done only because of weasels trying to rip off innocent people? Do we need here really the market participants 'that take the benefits and costs go to others'? Sure, partly this is so, especially in the finance sector. Yet I don't think explains everything.
  • Echarmion
    2.6k
    You note quite rightly that I justify a presumption in favour of liberty only very briefly. The primary reason is that it is not the main subject I wanted to address, the argument being concerned primarily with market failure. Few people, it seems to me, would say openly of themselves that they are ‘anti-liberty’. Maybe I am wrong about this. But I think that there is a widespread intuition that a world in which individuals have a substantial measure of freedom to pursue their own interests and satisfy their wants is preferable to a world in which, say, most people have the trajectory of their lives dictated to them by others. That a world in which most people are free is preferable to one in which most people are enslaved is a proposition that I didn’t feel the need to justify at any length. Maybe a project for another time. Rather, most people are sceptical of libertarianism, not because they are ‘anti-liberty’ as such, but because they believe that a system of peaceful voluntarism faces limitations which only an alternative (such as coercive Statism or collective ownership) can overcome. This is the subject I sought to address.Virgo Avalytikh

    The question is not so much whether one is "anti-liberty" and more what one thinks constitutes liberty. Anarcho-socialists might consider wage labor not much better than slavery. They may be wrong in their analysis, but the core problem remains that "freedom" or "liberty" is a fundamentally contested term. Most people have their intuitions about what liberty means, but few have a systematic approach. I myself find Kant's notion of "liberty as duty", to put it very briefly, quite compelling. This is, presumably, quite a different basis than the one from which classical libertarians argue.

    I am most acquainted with my own life, and therefore best situated to make the best decisions for myself. This is only a generalisation, but the generalisation holds. I am a better judge of my own affairs than I am of yours. No one should trust me with running their life for a day. An elegant argument for liberty on the basis of the nature of knowledge may be found in Friedrich Hayek’s essay, ‘The Use of Knowledge in Society’, which everybody in the world should read (twice).Virgo Avalytikh

    This is, however, fundamentally a question of efficiency, not about knowledge. The libertarian approach is not that we should make use of market-based mechanism where those are most efficient, but that an approach based on individual self-interests is the right one - and the only right one - for all circumstances.

    Now consider the private-property solution. Everybody, by some system or other (a topic for another day), has a piece of land, and is personally responsible for cultivating it. Someone who works the land to the full and gets the most out of it, (if he is permitted to keep what he produces) will receive the benefit from it, and therefore has a realistic incentive to be productive.Virgo Avalytikh

    But this example is extremely simplistic. We live in a capitalist society with significant division of labor. We are simply not self sustaining farmers, and we very likely don't want to be. And even if that example were at all applicable to a modern society, it leaves out all the complications. What if, in order to improve my yields, I divert a river that happens to flow across my land. Or use pesticides with significant effects on neighbors? There are all sorts of scenarios where burdens and profits fall apart. And I will repeat that if I act solely according to pragmatic self-interest, I will try to make it so that the burdens of my actions fall on others.

    As you point out, some people, perhaps many, might take it upon themselves to work for the common good, even at great cost to themselves. To which I would respond that, if such is the case, then there is no reason why this may not happen in a private-property system, too. We must have a fair and consistent standard, in our estimation of human nature. What one finds is that there is an excessive scepticism of human nature when it comes to considering the risks of private ownership, and an excessive optimism when considering the risks of collective ownership.Virgo Avalytikh

    Right, but then I didn't intent to say that such reasons only exists outside of libertarianism, but that they exist at all.

    I have argued that there ought to be a presumption in favour of liberty, where liberty is defined in terms of private ownership and the absence of aggression. There are good reasons to think that this general posture is one which makes us better off than the alternatives (namely, being aggressed against by a coercive institution, or being a negligible element in a much larger collective). From here, the argument is that, while peaceful voluntarism does exhibit certain limitations in terms of what it can easily achieve, which I have grouped together under the category of ‘market failure’, the alternatives to peaceful voluntarism are themselves subject to market failure, though with far greater frequency, and with fewer possibilities to overcome it.Virgo Avalytikh

    While the structure of this argument is logically sound, you haven't provided much of any justification for all the premises on the way. The premises you are setting up are the core points of debate where libertarianism is concerned.
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    This is probably a tangent to the main point of your thread, so I will understand being ignored:

    a system of private ownership and non-aggressionVirgo Avalytikh

    I still can't figure out why libertarians use 'non-aggression' when they seem to mean 'non-violent'? If they actually mean 'non-aggressive' then I guess aggressive marketing campaigns (and a thousand other business ideas that can accurately - not figuratively - apply the word aggressive) are off the table? What am I missing?
  • BC
    13.5k
    Consider the so-called ‘tragedy of the commons’. There is common land, ownership of which is shared by the community as a whole. Because nobody is individually responsible for its upkeep, it goes to ruin.Virgo Avalytikh

    England experienced a 'tragedy of the commons' in the form of the common agricultural land being enclosed and made private. The commons had been maintained by the community for a long time. Neglect wasn't the tragedy. The tragedy was the loss of the commons, not its neglect.

    The management of common agricultural land was (is) well within the operational capabilities of ordinary people. Our distant ancestors lived "in the commons for maybe 200,000 years without ruining it. In more recent times, in England, it wasn't ruin, but a land grab, that was the tragedy.
  • Virgo Avalytikh
    178


    One basic problem with the theory of the free market is that even if it comes close to describing reality, it doesn't get the cigar. What the global markets are absolutely dominated are oligopolies and oligopolistic competition: thousands of smaller actors exist yes, but only ten or so large companies exist that simply dominate the market. Basically in every market there is. As libertarianism can be accredited to make good critique about state created monopolies and things as disasterous as centrally planned socialism, it hasn't in my view made such a compelling explanation how we get nearly in every market an oligopoly.ssu

    It is probably worth saying something about monopolies, and clarifying a little more what we mean by this. One important distinction is that between ‘coercive monopolies’ and ‘efficiency monopolies’. Coercive monopolies are those which are established and maintained through acts of aggression. An example of this would be if I, a baker, were to beat up or kill all the other bakers in town, or set fire to their bakeries, and generally use force to make sure that nobody can compete with me. Apart from the fact that this is clearly impermissible behaviour, there is also nothing about this which tends towards consumer satisfaction. This is distinct from my baking the best bread in town and offering it for the best price, satisfying consumers better than all my competitors so that they patronise my business, such that my competitors go out of business. This is an ‘efficiency monopoly’. Efficiency monopolies are harmless in and of themselves. This is not to say that it is impossible for them to produce problems, but they are not problematic per se (all of this can be applied to oligopolies as well).

    Whatever your feelings about natural economic monopolies, the State is not the answer. You correctly point out that the State has the power to grant monopolistic privileges to private firms, but that isn’t even the most fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is that the State is itself a monopoly, and a monopoly of the very worst kind: it is a coercive monopoly, existing on a scale that puts any private actor in the shade (except, perhaps, for those private actors who make privileged use of the State apparatus). Quite simply, you cannot sensibly be ‘anti-monopoly’ and ‘pro-State’. To be a Statist is, by definition, to be pro-coercion and pro-monopoly. That is what a State is, it seems to me. So, whatever your feelings on economic monopoly, Statism is no serious solution. It is simply rushing us towards the very nightmare that the market sceptic is trying to prevent.

    So, the libertarian (or simply the economic) explanation for the way in which markets tend to produce a small number of companies holding a large market share is twofold: either the companies are producing a service which, for reasons of quality or price, do the best job at satisfying consumer wants, or else they are the beneficiaries of illicit State privilege. Probably some combination of the two. Obviously, the first is the less problematic of the two (indeed, there’s no reason in principle to consider it as problematic at all). And the second, you have to take up with the Statist.

    I purpose an a mind experiment: Let's assume a new of technology emerges and creates a new market, where every major actor in the market is an optimist and a believer in "the cause". This aggregate optimism will create a mania and the stock prices of this new industry will shoot to the moon...until even your old aunt has invested in the 'new thing' and there is nobody left to buy at such astronomical prices and hence the prices collapse bursting the 'speculative bubble'. The crash will be then seen as a market failure.ssu

    Your thought-experiment is interesting, though I am not entirely sure for what it is intended to be an argument. Certainly, it cannot be an effective argument for Statism: if some substantial number of market participants (whether consumers, entrepeneurs of whoever) make poor or short-sighted allocative decisions with their own resources, how much worse would the consequences be when they are acting as voters, lobbyists, regulators and elected representatives in the political market, where the consequences of their actions are distributed among many others, and they therefore have far less reason to be prudent!

    So I know you cannot mean this. Perhaps you are merely illustrating the fact that not everything which comes under the umbrella of ‘market failure’ is caused because of individuals taking decisions whose costs are borne by other people. This much I am happy to concede: it may well be that some examples of market failure are not caused this way. It is only a tendency. ‘Market failure’ is defined (at least for my purposes) as a case wherein individually rational actions produce a negative effect for almost or absolutely everyone. So your example would indeed be a case of market failure. As to its precise causes, this perhaps will vary from one case to the next. I would say, though, that since States, through their central banks, tend to control both the money supply and the interest rate, the whole financial system is so remote from a free market in money that none of the crises of recent times can fairly be blamed on ‘laissez faire’. Our monetary systems are market-hostile at their very core. From the libertarian point of view, it is not simply a question of ‘deregulation’; the whole monetary system needs gutting.
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.