er, what? — Bartricks
Not all beliefs are subjective, because some beliefs are deemed objectively justified. Furthermore, once a belief is expressed in language it is no longer a state of mind, and does no longer require that a person be involved. Machines can also manipulate language expressions. — alcontali
If we use "subjective" to refer to mental phenomena, then beliefs would be subjective unless we're claiming that beliefs can obtain outside of minds somehow. — Terrapin Station
Re language, I'd say that you're conflating things like sounds, pixels on computer screens, ink marks on paper--however language is expressed, with beliefs. The sounds, etc. are correlated to beliefs, but they're not literally beliefs. — Terrapin Station
I am convinced that some beliefs can be expressed in language — alcontali
How do you think that sound waves or ink on a page or whatever can literally be a belief? — Terrapin Station
1. If moral values are my values, then if I value something necessarily it is morally valuable (if P, then Q)
2. If I value something it is not necessarily morally valuable (not Q)
3. Therefore moral values are not my values (therefore not P)
That argument is valid and sound. You can run it again with yourself mentioned in premise 1 and 2 rather than me and it will remain valid and sound. — Bartricks
We never really know what the belief is, because we only ever deal with the corresponding language expression. — alcontali
It is a language expression that is at best "isomorphic" with the corresponding belief, meaning that operations on the language expressions will still correspond to operations on the belief. For example, if you negate the language expression, it will somehow correspond to the negated belief. — alcontali
Staring with #1, I value eating ice cream (in moderation) - but I think we would all agree that eating ice cream is not morally valuable. What am I missing here? — EricH
Joyce believes that it is the mark of a moral imperative that it is categorical. Like Kant. And like, you know, the vast bulk of moral philosophers, now and throughout history. And like, well, most who have a moral sensibility. — Bartricks
You: who - I have no idea what a 'someone' this killer could be is. — Bartricks
I have told you that the arguments I have made are deductively valid. — Bartricks
Okay for the umpteenth time - the subject is....wait for it......a subject. A subject of experiences. You know, what you are. What I am. Like, the most familiar thing in the world. — Bartricks
And don't start talking to me about the Euthyphro dialogue. You haven't read it, have you? I think I'm the only one here who actually has. — Bartricks
"“A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.” — Bartricks
I have told you what a subject is. But you insist you don't know and that I haven't told you. — Bartricks
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