It's like saying: "in order to know that I can't see the back of this screen, I must know that I'm not looking at the back of this screen. But I can only know that if I know what it looks like. Therefore, I must be able to see the back of this screen in order to say that I can't see it." — StreetlightX
Right, and that axiom must be taken as a “given.” However, I wouldn’t say that giving the realist position the status of axiom renders it “off limits” to the skeptic who is unconvinced of its supposed “self-evidence.” — PessimisticIdealism
"The physical world is real." That is supposed to be the fundamental hypothesis. What does "hypothesis" mean here? For me, a hypothesis is a statement, whose truth must be assumed for the moment, but whose meaning must be raised above all ambiguity. The above statement appears to me, however, to be, in itself, meaningless, as if one said: "The physical world is cock-a-doodle-do." It appears to me that the "real" is an intrinsically empty, meaningless category (pigeon hole), whose monstrous importance lies only in the fact that I can do certain things in it and not certain others. — Einstein, 1918
How do we know that Mt. Everest existed before we knew about it? — Marchesk
"Mt. Everest" picks out a particular mountain. That mountain existed in it's entirety prior to being named. — creativesoul
a realist - on my reading anyway - wouldn't say that. — StreetlightX
In the general view realism is just saying ‘When I walk out of a room I don’t believe the room ceases to exist, although in my immediate sensible experiencing it does - in some sense of the word - cease to be ‘appreciated’ as concretely there. — I like sushi
Do we picture a chair in the room (and no person present)? But then that's just a counterfactual (disembodied) experience. — Michael
"Mt. Everest" picks out a particular mountain. That mountain existed in it's entirety prior to being named. — creativesoul
In this respect, Kant has no problem with objects existing before or without us, he's only making the point things must be explicable in our concepts. Kant, as an emprical realist, has no problem with My Everest existing at a particular height before any humans measure it. — TheWillowOfDarkness
I basically agree. Practicality and efficiency render skepticism unhelpful in terms of getting on with our daily lives; however, this wouldn't by any means render the initial argument null and void. — PessimisticIdealism
So my only disagreement is with your final conclusion. I think realism is the operating assumption for everyday communication and the growth of knowledge (and is therefore tenable) but is not, itself, something that is known to be true. — Andrew M
I basically agree. Practicality and efficiency render skepticism unhelpful in terms of getting on with our daily lives; however, this wouldn't by any means render the initial argument null and void. — PessimisticIdealism
Is there a correlation between us and the world? If so, then isn't science getting at what is?Science is only concerned with how the world correlates to us, and not how it is. — Marchesk
Is there a correlation between us and the world? If so, then isn't science getting at what is? — Harry Hindu
What are the viable alternatives? Are there only two - solipsism and realism? — Harry Hindu
Do either of the first two that you mentioned hold a view other than there are things outside of our experiences, or that there aren't? For a transcendental or Berkeley idealist, are there things that exist independent of their mind, whether it be other minds, or other bodies? The point is that it doesn't matter whether the external stuff is other ideas, or material, or whatever - only that there is stuff that exists independent of your experience, or not at all - what that stuff is made of is irrelevant at this point.Add transcendental and Berkeley's idealism to the list. Skepticism is that we simply can't know, so that would be fifth one. — Marchesk
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