proposition can, of course, be "in-itself true" even if it is not rigorously provable. A proposition, if it has a truth value, is either true for false. In and of itself. The world is either as the proposition describes or it is not. — Douglas Alan
And this just shows there's no accounting for what passes for philosophy in Cambridge (our fair city), MA. (home of Harvard U., and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, both claimed by our boy). A hazard of institutions that teach that they're congenitally always right and correct and congratulate themselves for same, or people who having attended, make it their own methodology.To a philosopher in Cambridge MA, a proposition being a fact has nothing to do with whether you can prove it. It is a fact if it truthfully represents the world, and it is not a fact if it doesn't. — Douglas Alan
A kind of barbed hook that always catches the one fishing, and never a fish. Do you really want to go there? Google Kurt Godel and undecidable propositions.What is an undecided proposition? — 3017amen
The short answer is that there are a multitude of propositions that go beyond simple true and false, yes or no, either/or. I just wanted to ask the MIT guy! — 3017amen
I'm not sure what you mean by an "undecided" proposition — Douglas Alan
You know, human condition kinds of stuff. — 3017amen
it's worth repeating the infamous Kantian judgement that seems to baffle logicians:
All events must have a cause. — 3017amen
But simply put, there is no such thing as a future fact. — tim wood
And this just shows there's no accounting for what passes for philosophy in Cambridge (our fair city), MA. (home of Harvard U., and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, both claimed by our boy). A hazard of institutions that teach that they're congenitally always right and correct and congratulate themselves for same, or people who having attended, make it their own methodology. — tim wood
A fact is a thing that is known to be consistent with objective reality and can be proven to be true with evidence. For example, "This sentence contains words." is a linguistic fact, and "The sun is a star." is a cosmological fact. Further, "Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States." and "Abraham Lincoln was assassinated." are also both facts, of history. All of these statements have the epistemic quality of being "ontologically superior" to opinion or interpretation — they are either categorically necessary or supported by adequate documentation.
This is sometimes called an absolute presupposition. That means that when Kant as writing, he found that for the scientists of his time - and he was himself apparently a world-class physics instructor - the idea of all events having causes was an absolute presupposition of their thinking. That means not that it was true or that anyone had proved it - it's not provable - but it was where they started in their thinking - something like an axiom. Google "absolute presuppositions" for detail. And it may seem absurd to question, but if you or i insist that all events have causes, we're only several generations behind in our thinking. Most of the sciences today have dispensed with the notion of causes, except perhaps in informal discussion, and think in terms of fields. One thing that drove them was the problem of giving a rigorous definition of cause.All events must have a cause. — 3017amen
A fact is a thing that is known to be consistent with objective reality and can be proven to be true with evidence. For example, "This sentence contains words." is a linguistic fact, and "The sun is a star." is a cosmological fact. Further, "Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States." and "Abraham Lincoln was assassinated." are also both facts, of history. All of these statements have the epistemic quality of being "ontologically superior" to opinion or interpretation — they are either categorically necessary or supported by adequate documentation. — Douglas Alan
It is true that..." and "It is a fact that..." seem to be semantically equivalent. They are grammatically different but the first can be changed to 'It is a truth that..." without seeming to semantically change anything or descending into incoherence. — Janus
A fact is a thing that is known to be consistent with objective reality and can be proven to be true with evidence. For example, "This sentence contains words." is a linguistic fact, and "The sun is a star." is a cosmological fact. Further, "Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States." and "Abraham Lincoln was assassinated." are also both facts, of history. All of these statements have the epistemic quality of being "ontologically superior" to opinion or interpretation — they are either categorically necessary or supported by adequate documentation.
— Douglas Alan
You make my point egg-zackly! For facts, their truth is granted. Different from the truth of, e.g., 2+3=5, — tim wood
In mathematics, a fact is a statement (called a theorem} that can be proven by logical argument from certain axioms and definitions.
Seem, sure, but think about where the meaning is coming from. The speaker or writer is presuming the reader/auditor already has the appropriate distinctions in mind and understands them as given. Not always the best recipe for communication. Why use the wrong word when there's a right one, unless you don't know the difference? — tim wood
A fact is the nature of a true statement (referring to a truth) — Qwex
You haven't responded to the point which was the lack of substantive semantic distinction between the two common phrases. — Janus
One of us, Douglas Alan, is claiming that the folks who inhale the rarified air at two of the planet's better schools observe no such distinction. — tim wood
Truth and fact are different animals. Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon is a fact. 2+3=5 is true — tim wood
I ask again, can you outline any difference in the semantic content of the two terms as they are commonly used? — Janus
If you do not know the meanings of, care about, or distinguish between the two words "fact" and true" then for you there is no difference. And to be sure, that's one-way-or-another true of many people in many contexts. — tim wood
For the record, I have never asserted that there is one correct usage of the term "fact". My only real assertion has been that your usage of the term "fact" is far afield from ordinary language usage, while the philosophers I have studied with have attempted to stick with ordinary language usage, as much as is possible. — Douglas Alan
Truth: property of a proposition.
Fact: what exists in the world. — David Mo
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