How can you separate experience and consciousness?
— Pop
As used in this thread the term "consciousness" (as equivalent to "mind") cannot be. Experience is one of the elements that form consciousness. — David Mo
What is consciousness then? If you introspect into your consciousness you will find experiences and emotions. Nothing more. Remove the experiences and emotions and your consciousness will be empty. — David Mo
We talk about the contents of the mind in a metaphorical sense, but they aren't real stuff. I say the mind is empty.Whenever you define the mind, you define the contents, never the container. — David Mo
Confused? Try to tell me what is on your mind right now that is not experiences, emotions and thoughts about experiences and emotions or ideas based on experiences and emotions. — David Mo
As far as location is concerned, I don't see the mind having a different place from the whole nervous system (there are neurons in my bowels, also). I don't see my mind thinking from the table or from the back of the room. When my nervous system moves, my mind moves with it.Somewhere between my mind and my brain. — Wheatley
You are bound to stay confused whilst you continue to use outdated concepts such as mind. — Pop
What proposition? I don't find it. Repeat it, please. — David Mo
Mind is a state of consciousness.
Consciousness is fundamental. A state of entangled, integrated, and unified information must exist for any thought to arise. It is all ineffable until this happens.
The idea that consciousness is a subset of mind is a nonsense ,as the basis of any thought is a state of entangled, integrated, and unified information ( consciousness ) — Pop
The idea that consciousness is a subset of mind is a nonsense — Pop
Consciousness 1. awareness or perception of an inward psychological or spiritual fact: intuitively perceived knowledge of something in one's inner self
• inward awareness of an external object, state, or fact
2. the state or activity that is characterized by sensation, emotion, volition, or thought.
This ambiguity permits the mind-body problem be treated in the articles "Mind" and "Consciousness" at once.Mind: The mind is the set of thinking faculties including cognitive aspects such as consciousness, imagination, perception, thinking, judgement, language and memory, as well as noncognitive aspects such as emotion.
There is no misinformation in the Wikipedia definition. It is the use that the major dictionaries collect and the use in tens of thousands of psychological and philosophical articles and books. For them, what you call "consciousness" is called "mind". I would say that it is your use of the word that produces some verbal confusion. As I explain below.If consciousness is fundamental, then it cannot be part of the set of mind as described below. Mind must be a subset of consciousness.
As a consequence the following wikipedia quote would be misinformation:
" Mind: The mind is the set of thinking faculties including cognitive aspects such as consciousness, imagination, perception, thinking, judgement, language and memory, as well as noncognitive aspects such as emotion." — Pop
This is true, if you include in consciousness more than thoughts, as your own definition suggests. That is, "consciousness", in your definition, would be active when some unconscious activities are functioning: desires, emotions, dreams, associations of ideas would be part of this "consciousness" or we would need another word to designate them. Freud called it "unconscious" to oppose it to conscious. In my concept of mind, this would fit in nicely. How does it fit in with your concept of consciousness? Because it sounds strange that there's an unconscious part of consciousnessThat consciousness arises at the same time as a thought is formed, and that this is the fundamental first step of all thinking. — Pop
Correct me if I am wrong, but Heidegger did not identify the Being with any form of consciousness. Therefore, turning to Heidegger to justify that consciousness exists outside the brain doesn't seem helpful. Therefore, I ask you to describe this Being common to all things and to explain what makes you think it is a consciousness that exists outside the human brain. In your own words, if possible. — David Mo
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