I'm not a big fan of globalism — christian2017

Yet you belong to a fascist religion that seeks world dominance and did not mind using inquisitions and murder to make it so.

Nice religion you follow. Not.

Regards
DL

Rights are not given by God, — Congau

I agree.

I do not think one can be given a right unless the means of enforcing it is also given.One can only take a right that he is willing to enforce himself.

Regards
DL

I'm not a big fan of globalism
— christian2017

Yet you belong to a fascist religion that seeks world dominance and did not mind using inquisitions and murder to make it so.

Nice religion you follow. Not.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

thats fair.

Do you have any real god given rights — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Without a definition on what you mean by god, this question is impossible to answer. Since you take the word 'right' out of the juridical context, you would also need to define what you mean by it as well. All we can know is that we exist (Descartes 'cogito ergo sum'), does that mean we have the right to exist?

God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Noah Harrari would agree with you (the book "sapiens"). He says humans were able to coordinate on a massive scale due to legal fictions and fictions. He points out that the ammorite Hammurabi in ~1770bc made a list of rights just like the US made a list of right in ~1776ad.

Apes can function in groups of approximately 150 and strangely enough there are ~155 nations on this earth. He says we dominated the planet due to legal fictions such as money and fictions such as human rights and religion.

I think his book is worth reading. I read the first 4 chapters and watched a bunch of his videos.

thats fair. — christian2017

I always try to be.

Talk to your Christian friends and ask them to do the same for gays and women.

Regards
DL

Without a definition on what you mean by god, — Tomseltje

God is well defined, to the Christians who wrote the U.S. judicial documents. I will not second guess them.

All we can know is that we exist (Descartes 'cogito ergo sum'), does that mean we have the right to exist? — Tomseltje

Only if I have what it takes to defend my right to life. That or an enforcement mechanism that I can call to my rescue.

I do not see rights as being something given. They are something that we can only accept or take.

Regards
DL

He says we dominated the planet due to legal fictions such as money and fictions such as human rights and religion. — christian2017

There is some truth to that, but you forget that the religious fictions that Christianity used, where backed up by inquisitionsd and murder to grow Christianity as the did not have decent moral arguments to convert with.

You forget what made Christianity the size it is. Murder and lies.

Regards
DL

thats fair.

He says we dominated the planet due to legal fictions such as money and fictions such as human rights and religion.
— christian2017

There is some truth to that, but you forget that the religious fictions that Christianity used, where backed up by inquisitionsd and murder to grow Christianity as the did not have decent moral arguments to convert with.

You forget what made Christianity the size it is. Murder and lies.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

one of the forum moderators said i have to act like a christian so

i'm in the process of turning the other cheek, can you see me turning the other cheek through the screen, there i turned the other cheek.

I turned the other cheek.

Are you familiar with ancient Iraq temple prostitution and modern hindu temple prostitution?

How do you feel about the Roman Catholic (not all Christian) sex scandals?

Haven't we talked about the inquisition before.

i'm in the process of turning the other cheek, can you see me turning the other cheek through the screen, there i turned the other cheek.

I turned the other cheek.

Talk to your Christian friends and ask them to do the same for gays and women. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

My Christian friends are more ethical than your Christian friends so there. Ha!

We abort less Babies. Isaiah chapter 57, Exodus chapter 21 and Numbers chapter 5 says abortion is forgivable though. (KJV) The KJV doesn't support rape but the NIV does support rape. Strange how the more conservative Bible is less evil.

Uber is the future.

Since we are both Christianoid i don't have to turn the other cheek with you since we are both essentially equals as far as an online forum is concerned. I have no reason to believe you aren't more ethical than me considering i know nothing about you. I don't need to turn the other cheek since we are both Christianoid.

God is well defined, to the Christians who wrote the U.S. judicial documents. I will not second guess them. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

That's a rather narrower definition than I had in mind. First of all it's narrowing down the word 'god' to only mean the Christian god, and then further narrowing it down by how it's applied by a legal institution within a single nation. As someone not living in the US I'm not even familiar with what you are referring to.

Only if I have what it takes to defend my right to life. That or an enforcement mechanism that I can call to my rescue.

I do not see rights as being something given. They are something that we can only accept or take. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

So your life was not given to you by God?
How can you even accept something that wasn't given to you to begin with? You seem to apply a vastly different definition of the word 'accept' as well.

The notion of rights first took shape in the minds of people whose eyes were opened to the idea of morality. While it's difficult to pin down how and why of the first stirrings of ethical thinking, it's not all too difficult to see that rights are part and parcel of our sense of morality.

What is god but the ultimate perfection of our moral sense? Therefore, it's absolutely ok to assert that, since our rights are simply outgrowths of our morality and since god is the flawless form of our morality, our rights trace their origins to god, the all-benevolent creator.

I turned the other cheek. — christian2017

Look up the Jewish definition and custom to know what it means.

Thanks for the insult.

Regards
DL

So your life was not given to you by God? — Tomseltje

Do you not have a mother and a father that are human?

I do.

If you think some god gives life, then explain why he produced the poor souls you see in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-nHw0_Fos&feature=player_embedded

Do you agree that only a satanic creator would create those?

Regards
DL

The notion of rights first took shape in the minds of people whose eyes were opened to the idea of morality. While it's difficult to pin down how and why of the first stirrings of ethical thinking, it's not all too difficult to see that rights are part and parcel of our sense of morality.

What is god but the ultimate perfection of our moral sense? Therefore, it's absolutely ok to assert that, since our rights are simply outgrowths of our morality and since god is the flawless form of our morality, our rights trace their origins to god, the all-benevolent creator. — TheMadFool

Look at the link in my last post.

Now try to write what you did again without choking on your own words.

How you see benevolence in a baby torturing genocidal prick is beyond me.

Do try to justify your impossible to justify thinking.

Regards
DL

Look at the link in my last post.

Now try to write what you did again without choking on your own words.

How you see benevolence in a baby torturing genocidal prick is beyond me.

Do try to justify your impossible to justify thinking.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

You've misconstrued my words. I don't mean that there's a being who resides in heaven called god. God, as I used it, is morality taken to perfection and being that, is the source of our moral sense and, because that's so, the source of rights.

You've misconstrued my words. I don't mean that there's a being who resides in heaven called god. God, as I used it, is morality taken to perfection and being that, is the source of our moral sense and, because that's so, the source of rights. — TheMadFool

Good.

I also define the word god similarly.

I define it as the best rules and laws to live by, so I think we are on the same page.

I think that that is the message of the Moses myth as he came off the mountain with laws from god and not with a god. The Jews, like us, quickly tried to improve on those.

The big 10 are rather vile when you think of them, so they failed in giving us the best rules and laws to live by.

I had forgotten that you were more agnostic when I replied and answered as I would have to a believer.

Regards
DL

Good.

I also define the word god similarly.

I define it as the best rules and laws to live by, so I think we are on the same page.

I think that that is the message of the Moses myth as he came off the mountain with laws from god and not with a god. The Jews, like us, quickly tried to improve on those.

The big 10 are rather vile when you think of them, so they failed in giving us the best rules and laws to live by.

I had forgotten that you were more agnostic when I replied and answered as I would have to a believer.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

:up:

edited. You insult me all the time. We both read the Bible and claim to adhere to Jesus's teachings.

How do you feel about Christians and Non-Christians working too hard in the work place? Is socialism the answer? check out this website. www.truefiscalconservatism.com

You insult me all the time. We both read the Bible and claim to adhere to Jesus's teachings. — christian2017

I insult you for your morals as you are following the Rome created Jesus.

I follow Jesus' more esoteric/shamanic ways.

Your way slaves you to religion while my way frees us from it.

Keep following a genocidal god if you like, but do not expect moral people to respect you for holding such a position.

Do you respect the old German S S's thinking?

You are thinking the same way if you idolize Yahweh.

Regards
DL

Is socialism the answer? — christian2017

We have never had a true socialist system with a flat demographic pyramid so we have nothing to compare.

We do know that all societies are hierarchal and they are showing that socialism, whatever that is, is not what they want.

You might look at the happiness stats and recognize that the Northern European democracies have blende democracy with social programs in ways that have increased the happiness factor.

Regards
DL

This is a cultural saying, nothing to do with... the realm we live in or some metaphysical truth. We have only the rights we can defend. This is true even about your own mind, since especially today, a war is fought even there. Most people do not own even 2% of their own mind. I think many of us want to think the morals are real thing... And I tend to agree... but not in this realm... This realm is "moral free". If you want to use it - ok, but no obligations. We live in a chaos, and whoever can create order out of this chaos... No wander this is the motto of the so called elite ruling this planet. Eventually order will become a machine, and will annihilate this realm altogether. I think the only "god given right" we have, is exiting the realm, but of course... it's not an easy task. A task most people today do not even realize.

You insult me all the time. We both read the Bible and claim to adhere to Jesus's teachings.
— christian2017

I insult you for your morals as you are following the Rome created Jesus.

I follow Jesus' more esoteric/shamanic ways.

Your way slaves you to religion while my way frees us from it.

Keep following a genocidal god if you like, but do not expect moral people to respect you for holding such a position.

Do you respect the old German S S's thinking?

You are thinking the same way if you idolize Yahweh.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

nope

Is socialism the answer?
— christian2017

We have never had a true socialist system with a flat demographic pyramid so we have nothing to compare.

We do know that all societies are hierarchal and they are showing that socialism, whatever that is, is not what they want.

You might look at the happiness stats and recognize that the Northern European democracies have blende democracy with social programs in ways that have increased the happiness factor.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

thats fair. did you check out my website? www.truefiscalconservatism.com

We have only the rights we can defend. — interim

I agree.

Regards
DL

If you think some god gives life, then explain why he produced the poor souls you see in this link. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

If you have an argument or statement yourself, bring it forward. I'm not going to watch links you post on the odd chance there is something useful in it if you can't even point out or summarize what's worthy of looking at in the link you mention.

what's worthy — Tomseltje

What is worthy is contemplating why a creator god would intentionally create abominations of nature.

It is demonstrable that nature inadvertently creates for the best possible end to all life.

It is demonstrable, biblically, to see that that good standard is not what the genocidal Yahweh uses.

If your god is the Yahweh/Roman Jesus combo, you can do better.

Regards
DL