I've written an essay last year about whether we honestly judge others as incels or whether we actually apply a different set of criteria to them — Garth
You seem to be missing the fact that "incel" isn't predominantly a slur we use for others. People self-described as "incels" first. In a convoluted way, to the incels, being as they are is a badge of honor.
So the central premise of the essay seems misguided, and it's definition of what an "incel" is seems to bear little resemblance to how members of incel communities describe themselves and their views. — Echarmion
How we describe the incel is one thing and how the incel describes himself is another thing. I don't think that my essay really requires me to address the details of the way incels describe themselves since it is really about how we describe incels. — Garth
You pretty quickly claim that when we say "incel" we really mean "looser", but how do you arrive at that conclusion? — Echarmion
You could point out to me where you justify your view. To me it seems like a naked claim, a premise that is taken as granted from the start. — Echarmion
1. If I justify my view, I simply offer another set of premises which are equally unjustified. You may refer to Aristotle's Prior Analytics for a discussion of the possibilities involved. — Garth
2. If you ask me to justify a definition, what form would the argument take such that the definition itself is justified? — Garth
Furthermore I wrote an entire essay on the subject, which you are ignoring the existence of — Garth
You're making an empirical claim. About how people use a term, what they associate with it and what their motivations are. — Echarmion
But it's not a definition. You're not saying "I define incel as a looser". You're describing how other people supposedly see the issue and what causes these views. Those are claims for which you can - and should - supply evidence. — Echarmion
I have looked through your essay. It doesn't discuss the actual usage of the word beyond a single example. And even in that single example your explanation of what's going on is highly questionable. — Echarmion
It's really quite clear that your essay takes the worldview often expressed by incels as it's starting point, and really seems intended for their consumption. — Echarmion
I argue that "incel" is just used as a synonym for "young single white male loser". — Garth
According to whom? You? I don't particularly care about your opinion. So I don't see why I should provide evidence for my claims to you. — Garth
If you can't identify any problems with my explanation other than calling it "questionable" — Garth
But the problem with this narrative is that if she had not asked him out and if he was simply
sharing his rage and hatred for her at being rejected, there is no way he would garner the same
sympathy. He would be branded an incel -- that is to say an irrational hater of women. This
would suggest that the defining difference between a person expressing his pain at being hurt
by women and a person being an incel is the mere event of being unwanted by women.
or one, why would someone normally express "rage and hatred" for being rejected? That'd already be a sign of an unhealthy approach. — Echarmion
For another, why would we then conclude the only possible reason people object to such an expression is because the person is "unwanted by women"? — Echarmion
Why white? Why male, even? Not saying that these adjectives don’t work here, they do, but why do people not call ‘incels’ those young females who never get laid? And whats do we call the young black males who don’t get any? Nobody cares... they are not called anything.
This points to a sense of white male entitlement being at the core of the incel psychology. People who lack this sense of entitlement are apparently not developing this particular form of mental illness. So an incel is a young white male who thinks he deserves some but ain’t getting any. — Olivier5
And who or what does the incel thinks he deserves? The cutest girls of course, the ones he wanks on on his cellphone. Here is the real tragedy, because there are thousands of girls out there not getting any either... and quite a few of them because they want the cutest boys too... If only these sexually ambitious boys and girls would lower their aim a little bit (considering that the cutest girls tend to go with the cutest boys and vice versa), they would easily find a mate. — Olivier5
Because people didn't object to this man's rage and hatred in this particular instance. In fact, they offered him support. Yes, I admit that considering the counterfactual in which he wasn't then approached by the girl requires a bit of imagination, so it doesn't qualify as more than speculation. I don't claim to make an empirical claim since I'm not an empiricist nor a scientist. But I am fairly sure that if he had simply voiced complaints at a girl he likes sleeping around nobody would have said anything nice to him. — Garth
The point of my essay is this: The substantive question about incels is what phenomena in our culture produces them. — Garth
So I see no reason to even bother reading incel ideology. We should decide what the incel is. — Garth
The notion of "incel" didn't exist back when I was younger — Pfhorrest
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.