When the rioting started, I wanted to know what the facts were - and so I looked them up. From 2003-2012, there were on average 10 million arrests per year. There were around 1000 Arrest Related Deaths per year - 42% white, 32% black. That's a 0.1% failure rate in a country where people carry guns. The police are not murdering people. In fact they are incredibly professional. But how to explain the fact that black people are 13% of the population, yet make up 32% of deaths. For that we have to look at the crime stats - and they are fucking abysmal. Black people commit massively more crime than white people. Really, it's shocking. The black 13% of the population commit more murders than the white 76% of the population. Violent crime, drugs, theft - all way above average. Put simply, black people commit more crime.
...The problem is cultural - and it's never going to change until black people take personal responsibility, start to value education and aspire to a socially useful idea of success. — counterpunch
I was attracted to the forum because I am the most significant philosophical thinker of this, or any other generation - and I'm duty bound to share my uniquely enlightened thoughts, and shepard(sic) humankind into a prosperous and sustainable future — counterpunch
If you have time, yes! — frank
So counterpunch really has no one in the government representing his interests? — frank
And his sense of having been betrayed by the supposed left has left him more angry at leftists than the tories?
Brett, KK has difficulties answering tough, direct questions. Dont expect any substantive answers from them.Why don’t you actually try and address Harry Hindu’s post. — Brett
Its not wrong that if you question the existence of white privilege you get called a racist. That was the point of what you quoted. Your reply simply doesn't address what I said, but that is expected from you.It's a large quantity of wrong. I addressed the part I thought most amenable to progress. If I need advice about what to address from you, I'll give you a heads up but frankly it's well outside your jurisdiction. — Kenosha Kid
If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed that I have said that racial slurs are ad hominems, just like calling people racist is. But you and your companions aren't interested in facts, only propaganda. — Harry Hindu
I may not have called you out if I read this properly, you are not being so unreasonable as I had thought. The way he talks about "white people" and "black people" bothers me a lot. Maybe I'll just sit out for now and make up my mind about this later. — Judaka
Do I think him a fascist? I wouldn't use that language. — Banno
Nevertheless, if the election was a fraud, those people did the right thing. They occupied the seat of power - and that's exactly what people should do if the system is corrupted. Afterall, the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution both begin "We, the people...." It belongs to them. It's shameful that a police officer shot someone dead for trying to enter a building that they own.... The people who occupied THIER seat of power to prevent a fraudulent election have nothing to be ashamed of. — counterpunch
Can you even prove the Floyd murder was racially motivated? You shouldn't call someone racist because they say things you don't like - when they're not racist. Just because it's not racist - that doesn't make it okay, you can still be angry just, maybe stop diluting the meaning of important words for political benefit? — Judaka
This brings to mind a more general question: I have often felt that when discussing with people who appeared honestly have a different opinion on social issues that the main disagreement was about what could reasonably be concluded from events. What happened was not in doubt, but what it means was. — Echarmion
That is do you feel they're overinterpreting events? See intent with insufficient evidence? Conclude systemic issues exist based on anecdotal evidence? — Echarmion
More generally, do you feel like the "left wing" tries to make the world more complicated than it is - that things are more often what they appear, and common sense works? Or is it the opposite? Neither? — Echarmion
I do have a problem with saying "race x should do this or needs to stop doing this" for a number of reasons. Mainly, it is ridiculous to hold a race of people accountable, no matter the subject matter. — Judaka
I was biased against you due to previous posts, I thought I had read enough of this thread to know that you were being unreasonable. — Judaka
Do I think him a fascist? I wouldn't use that language. — Banno
I do, based on: — Kenosha Kid
Nevertheless, if the election was a fraud, those people did the right thing. They occupied the seat of power - and that's exactly what people should do if the system is corrupted. Afterall, the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution both begin "We, the people...." It belongs to them. It's shameful that a police officer shot someone dead for trying to enter a building that they own.... The people who occupied THIER seat of power to prevent a fraudulent election have nothing to be ashamed of. — counterpunch
Legitimising a violent coup against a democratic government because his lot can't wrap their heads around why Trump was a turn-off is still legitimising a violent coup against a democratic government. — Kenosha Kid
A nation's leader, despite having come to power through legal means, dissolves or renders powerless the national legislature and unlawfully assumes extraordinary powers not granted under normal circumstances. Other measures taken may include annulling the nation's constitution, suspending civil courts and having the head of government assume dictatorial powers.
How is this relevant? — Kenosha Kid
I'm assuming counterpunch is one of those hereditary working class people who got educated (possibly when tuition was free!), then aged only to have the Labour party; traditionally worker-populist; betray 'em. But considering he's advocated here for a neoliberal (public-private partnership expanding) figurehead for Labour by my reckoning he's advocating for exactly the kind of Labour politics that destroyed their reputation in 2008 — fdrake
Given that energy, capitalism will be sustainable — counterpunch
I'm the first generation in my family to attend university. I studied sociology and politics. My major concerns upon graduating were not political or sociological - but philosophical and environmental. — counterpunch
It's strange how you can be so astute in some respects, and so purblind in others. — counterpunch
Your left wing, anti-capitalist, pay more-have less, carbon tax this, stop that, windmills and solar panels idea of sustainability won't work. It's based on Malthusian pessimism - disproven by 200 years of improved living standards despite a growing population, and the lie of limits to growth. Resources, in fact, are a function of the energy available to create them - not some fixed quantity being used up, that might run out. — counterpunch
We need improved living standards - not impoverishment imposed by left wing authoritarian government, not least because poor people tend to breed more.
That’s why Labour will kick-start a Green Industrial Revolution that will create one million jobs in the UK to transform our industry, energy, transport, agriculture and our buildings, while restoring nature. Our Green New Deal aims to achieve the substantial majority of our emissions reductions by 2030 in a way that is evidence-based, just and that delivers an economy that serves the interests of the many, not the few.
Just as the original Industrial Revolution brought industry, jobs and pride to our towns, Labour’s world-leading Green Industrial Revolution will rebuild them, with more rewarding, well-paid jobs, lower energy bills and whole new industries to revive parts of our country that have been neglected for too long. For some, industrial transition has become a byword for devastation, because successive Conservative governments were content to sit back and leave the fate of whole industries and communities at the mercy of market forces. A Labour government will never let that happen.
We will work in partnership with the workforce and their trade unions in every sector of our economy, so that they lead the transition in their industries, creating new, good-quality jobs and making sure that their extensive skills are passed on to the next generation of workers.
We will show the world how prioritising sustainability will not only deliver immediate improvements to everyone’s lives but also offer humanity a pathway to a more equitable and enlightened economy: one that protects our environment, reins in corporate power, revitalises democracy, unites our communities, builds international solidarity and promises a better quality of life for all. The scale of the challenge requires nothing less.
Tackling the destruction of our planet is a question of justice – for the communities at home and abroad who are most affected by it and for our children who will bear the consequences if we don’t. Social justice will define Labour’s approach. We will make sure that the costs of the green transition fall fairly and are mostly borne by the wealthy and those most responsible for the problem
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