China is insanely racist. Like Israel, it too runs concentration camps. — StreetlightX

Maybe you both need to educate yourselves before speaking about things you don't know. According to this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/16/a-revealing-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-ethnically-diverse-countries/%3foutputType=amp

Israel is on the more diverse end than China.

And look at Western Europe and Australia compared to the U.S. Looking at this map one would think that the Americans on this forum should be educating Australians and Western Europeans on diversity rather than the other way around.

Demographic ethnic diversity <> state racial institutionalization.

Sorry that you need something so basic explained to you.

You have to wonder why people risk their lives to come to America and not Australia or France.

You have to wonder why people risk their lives to come to America and not Australia or France. — Harry Hindu

:rofl:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_migrant_vessel_incidents_on_the_Mediterranean_Sea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_European_migrant_crisis

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/record-number-of-asylum-seeker-deaths-at-sea-in-2014-international-organisation-for-migration-20141217-12903h.html

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/10/refu-o24.html

I knew you were a fucking moron but I didn't think you'd be quite so ready to hang your ignorance out for display like a fucking show boat.

imagine someone replying that in such conversations "focusing on differences in perspective and worldview" instead of direct condemnation of slave-owners. — Maw

Condemnation is easy and doesn’t require thought so much as visceral reaction. You don’t do yourself a service by taking this easy route. The most difficult thing in the world to do is be open to the possibility that the one you are instinctively driven to hate , to condemn, to criminalize, construes the world though an entirely different lens than you do. You think all that separate us is our moral compass , but that is what binds us. What separates us is the almost impossible
difficulty of bridging alien systems of interpretation of fact.

Do you think Streetlight is a happy person?

Yet, Western Europe isn't as racially diverse as Israel or America, so my point stands.

As for Israel vs. the Palestinians, Israelis and Arabs are the same race. Religion is the cause for the violence, not racism. But that is what we expect: racists are focused on race, even when race isn't a factor.

Condemnation is easy and doesn’t require thought so much as visceral reaction. You don’t do yourself a service by taking this easy route. The most difficult thing in the world to do is be open to the possibility that the one you are instinctively driven to hate , to condemn, to criminalize, construes the world though an entirely different lens than you do. You think all that separate us is our moral compass , but that is what binds us. What separates us is the almost impossible difficulty of bridging alien systems of interpretation of fact. — Joshs

Opposing genocide really doesn't require these vapid brain loop-de-loops. Maybe Israel shouldn't be "instinctively driven" to demolish Palestinian housing, stealing Palestinian land, and bombing Palestinian civilians.

Israel needs to end its military occupation and return the land it has annexed. Only then can it begin to claim victimhood. No one has to excuse Islamist terrorism and anti-semitism to concede this simple point.

I knew you were a fucking moron but I didn't think you'd be quite so ready to hang your ignorance out for display like a fucking show car. — StreetlightX

Not the quality post one would expect from a moderator.

Do you think Streetlight is a happy person? — Joshs

No.

Not the quality post one would expect from a moderator. — Bitter Crank

Apologies. Having to wrangle with genocide apologists is unnerving. No less American chauvinism wrapped in ignorance.

Either STFU or lay your influences and bona fides on the table as I have done already. Your special pleading is getting to be as nauseating as your cowardly refusal to condemn an ethnic cleasing state-oppressor even as in broad daylight before cameras they militarily murder the oppressed who barely have any capability to fight back. Pathetic moral cowardice! Again, where is your moral clarity hiding, sir? I'm certain that if Hamas was doing to Tel Aviv what the IDF is now doing to Gaza City, denunciations and calls for NATO / US airstrikes on Gaza would be flying fast and furiously.

The most difficult thing in the world to do is be open to the possibility that the one you are instinctively driven to hate , to condemn, to criminalize, construes the world though an entirely different lens than you do — Joshs

It's actually extremely easy and obvious

So what do we do now? — BitconnectCarlos

:roll: For the fuckin' slow or disingenuous:

"Peace" (i.e. win-win conflict resolution) is Israel's choice alone because it is the master; absent that, the Palestinians have no choice but that of the slave: death by war or death by subjugation. — 180 Proof

There has never been any Israeli plot to genocide either the Palestinians or the Arabs. — BitconnectCarlos

All those deaths are “happy little accidents” I guess right?

4000-5000+ deaths due to “collateral damage” in “self defense” against the murderous terrorists that killed 30 of us.

You have to be ridiculously biased to buy that. You think those numbers are “self defense” numbers coming from any other country?

I could throw the same thing back at you - why are the Palestinians trying to wipe every Israeli Jew off the face of the Earth? — BitconnectCarlos

Because they were invaded and displaced. Still are getting displaced. And terrorized in “self defense”

We could do this all day. Is this a productive line of conversation? — BitconnectCarlos

If it reduces the number of genocide supporters like you? Yea.

Jews are the indigenous inhabitants of Israel and they were the ones ethnically cleansed when they were originally expelled from their homeland by occupying powers. — BitconnectCarlos

Imagine if Egyptians tried to annex Sudan because it was part of ancient Egypt. You think they’d be justified?

The people who are making dumb comments over and over again are the same people who are surprised when people get mad at them for making dumb comments over and over again. Not surprising.

tu quoque fallacy mate. And you do this every time. As if it's a good look for Israel to be compared to autocratic Middle Eastern regimes just to look good. I don't think you want to go there to begin with.

The upshot is of course that if people recognise Israel for the racist Apartheid State it is, they might finally come to their senses about continuing to support it.

Who in this thread has actually visited Israel and Palestine?

After a night of violence where Molotov cocktails were thrown at Arab homes in Jaffa, clerics are urging locals to remove any identifying symbols of Islam from their homes in order to protect them from anti-Arab attacks.

According to locals, some people have taken down decorative Ramadan and Eid al-Fitr decorations, such as moon crescents.

Meanwhile in Haifa, it appears that some Arabs are moving Muslim symbols from building facades, after residents claim they saw youth painting entrances to Arab homes in red. Women who wear the hijab head covering are also reportedly scared to leave their house.

These latest events join calls on social media to boycott Arab business in the cities.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-gaza-flare-up-heavy-rocket-fire-from-gaza-bombards-be-er-sheva-ashdod-1.9810782

It's almost a civil war inside Israel.

We're at the pogrom stage of genocide now I guess.

With the Covid situation a lot of countries in the Middle East are struggling more than usual. So who could possibly help the Palestinians now? Turkey? Egypt? Looks unlikely.

The US is still behind Israel. Biden on foreign policy has not been a big change, which is sad.

Religion speaks of love and peace, but only for those who believe in the same concept of God. It's hateful toward those who believe in a different idea of God. The opportunity to get off this carousel of intolerance and carnage - came and went in 1634, when scientific method was formalised by Galileo in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, but which was then rejected by the Catholic Church as heresy.

Science should have occurred as a common, true understanding of reality - and served as a rationalising influence that brought humankind together over centuries to form a species identity, concerned with doing what's morally right in terms of what's scientifically true, to promote sustainable prosperity.

Instead, we maintained religious ideas as authoritative, and merely used science in pursuit of religious, political and economic ideological ends. What's happening in Israel and Gaza is the natural consequence of this religious psychosis, and it's just the tip of the iceberg.

Within a causal reality, there's a relationship between the validity of the knowledge bases of action and the consequences of such action. Acting on the basis of ideas that are false to reality makes extinction inevitable. This conflict is pathological to the ideological psychosis of maintaining religious belief in denial of scientific truth. If that doesn't change - and 1,111 posts on this subject, all to no avail suggests it won't change, humankind will suffer unto extinction.

Hamas has been open that they won't lay down arms until the state of Israel is destroyed. As strong as Israel is it can't control the actions of the Palestinians who mainly govern themselves. Simply by continuing to exist as a Jewish state it draws hatred and violence. The Palestinians have agency in this.

tu quoque fallacy mate. And you do this every time. As if it's a good look for Israel to be compared to autocratic Middle Eastern regimes just to look good. I don't think you want to go there to begin with.

The upshot is of course that if people recognise Israel for the racist Apartheid State it is, they might finally come to their senses about continuing to support it. — Benkei

Whenever you're dealing in international relations like this you're essentially choosing friends and enemies. You're picking sides. If I was a neutral bystander to a regional conflict and one of the countries treated its minorities better than how the other countries treated their minorities - even if the treatment was far from ideal - I would still likely give credit to that imperfect country for that treatment of minorities.

It reminds me a bit of in the 50s and 60s when the US would criticize the Soviet Union for human rights' abuses and the Soviet Union would respond "well you guys lynch black people."

When you demand the absolute highest standard for one country and routinely penalize just that country for failing to meet that standard while essentially ignoring the other side that's a horribly unfair way to treat the conflict. It's not objective at all.

Self-fulfilling bs. The day Hamas, et al turns Israel into "the victim", Hamas' hours will be numbered; and both the Israelis and Palestinians have known this for decades. Neither party has any incentive to stop what they're doing, but only Israel can break the cycle (or precipate it breaking). Corrupt Likud has long been held hostage by the UltraOrthodox parties & the Settlers' Movement – US-backed Zionfascists – who are the sworn enemies of "Peace" and, in effect, of both Jews & Arabs living between Jordan and the sea.

This is a rare occasion when I can agree with Benkei, 180, Street and NOS in the same breath! Hurrah!

When you demand the absolute highest standard for one country and routinely penalize just that country for failing to meet that standard while essentially ignoring the other side that's a horribly unfair way to treat the conflict. It's not objective at all. — BitconnectCarlos

That's an absurdly transactional view of morality, imo. Morality doesn't apply based on some tit for tat where your wrongs are covered by those of some other person.

Morality is a different field than international relations. Countries aren't people.

Morality is a different field than international relations. Countries aren't people. — BitconnectCarlos

Countries are run and populated by people. Morality applies to their actions just fine.

Hamas has never, ever been shy about its intentions: Destroy Israel, establish an Islamic state in its place. It does not care if Israel removes settlements because its final goal is the absolute destruction of Israel. Hamas has sent suicide bombers into crowded nightclubs and bars on weekends, and they terrorize their own people through strict social controls that includes the execution of homosexuals and the routine subjugation of women. Hamas embezzles funds meant for humanitarian aid to the Palestinians to spend on weapons. Hamas doesn't even care about their own people.

But then again they are the weaker group compared to Israel and they don't like the US so how bad can they really be? Gotta support David over Goliath.