The fragility of the individual, although it results in the death of each and every one of us, is not a weakness however, because this is the means by which life tests all the different boundaries of the the environment which it inhabits, thereby producing all the diverse individuals which provide its overall strength. We ought not seek to limit diversity, because that would be a self-imposed weakness, making the vulnerability of the individual, universal. — Metaphysician Undercover
Antibiotics & public health infrastructures since the late 1800s, for instance, have been doing the job (e.g. average life expentancy has at least doubled, IIRC, in less than a century). Sterilized obstetrics, family planning, eugenics, cryogenics, early cancer detection, etc since the middle of last century. The only "problem" is humanity's impatience with how gradual developments are and so far the lack of "radical breakthroughs" for solving "the death problem" once and for all. — 180 Proof
However, the connection between transhumanism and natalism isn't quite as straightforward as one might think. Immortality is quite obviously going to lead to a huge space/resource crunch - how many people can the earth sustain (carrying capacity of a habitat). Both antintalists and transhumanists may want to stop procreation but obviously for entirely different reasons. - for one, it's too painful, for the other it's overcrowding. — TheMadFool
I’m personally hesitant to be an early adopter of any new technology, and especially hesitant about invasive medical interventions, but if the time comes that it’s either risk a new technology or die, life is worth the risk. I just hope I live long enough to get to make that choice. — Pfhorrest
Is the human ego so intent on continuing indefinitely? — Jack Cummins
I'm not too sure if the Malthusian explosion is really a phenomenon that humanity would experience if overcrowding occurs, whatever that means. — Shawn
Whaddaya mean? The Malthusian Trap — TheMadFool
With the people who really seem to wish to live forever,I do wonder how this would change in the face of adversity. Regarding the transhumanists, I can't believe that the truly extended life is not going to come with a few nasty side-effects. — Jack Cummins
:100:Even an "immortal" is mortal as well as finite and uncertain — 180 Proof
From Gilgamesh to "The Tower of Babel", "El Dorado" to Frankenstein, "Muad'Dib" to "Lestat" ... what greater quest could there be? Transhumanism is just the latest "Tree of Knowledge" ideology for undertaking anew that species quest for (or back to?) the "Tree of Life". Of all the windmills on our horizons, none seem to loom larger than 'my death' to go tilting at ...Personally, I never understood the quest for immortality. — javra
I don't want to live forever, just don't want to die before physical laws, so to speak, pull the plug.(I'm planning on some sort of chemical brain preservation process rather than tissue-cellular destroying "cryonics" to hopefully keep my brain 'viable' after I die until the technology is (if it's ever) ready for prime time.) — 180 Proof
... what greater quest could there be? — 180 Proof
The issue is sustaining being grateful for a very, very long time. I'd think we'd need a different type of brain to be able to do that. — Manuel
In contrast to Darwinian life, transhuman life will seem self-evidently wonderful by its very nature. — David Pearce
This sounds very much like a sentimental assertion, or a coin flipping problem. Isn't the issue then to enhance life rather than obey norms about how it happens or proceeds? — Shawn
I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but the point is very much to enhance life, yes. To make life feel worth living, and to enable people to continue living it. — Pfhorrest
I'm hesitant to say that living longer isn't going to automatically make you feel happy; but, rather that long term plans of living that do not incur death are going to be hard to determine whether one wants to pursue new things. — Shawn
Death anxiety is quite a strong motivator, but, once you eliminate it, what do you think would be the new prevailing motivator to pursue in life? — Shawn
Does the threat of, and inevitability of death make the act of living life more beautiful / meaningful? — CountVictorClimacusIII
No. — Pfhorrest
Why not? — CountVictorClimacusIII
Fixed. How? — CountVictorClimacusIII
Sure. How would that change with several billion immortals? - actually, if estimates are correct, about 11.2 billion at peak:
Source: https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth — CountVictorClimacusIII
okay, let's make ourselves a different type of brain, and in the mean time survive long enough to do so. — Pfhorrest
I'm unsure if I understand you again, but I didn't mean to suggest that living longer will automatically make anyone happier (though relieving death anxiety is something that could make people suffering from it happier). Making people happy just to be alive is a separate thing from enabling them to continue to be alive. — Pfhorrest
Also, supposing that one needs a specific motivation is kind of putting the cart before the horse, and indicates a mentality where, in that metaphor I used in my last post, the pipe drains rather than fills, so you need to find something to keep filling yourself up with. If we can instead let everyone have a pipe that fills them to overflowing, it's not a question of needing something to motivate you, because your motivation comes from inside: it's just a question of where you're going to pour your overflowing positivity, and anything at hand will do.
Learn things just for the sake of learning them. Accomplish things just for the sake of accomplishing them. Teach others for the sake of teaching, and help them accomplish their goals too, just for the sake of helping. Reach out to harness all the resources and information of the universe, and then spread them far and wide to everyone else too. That project is probably infinite, but even if it's not, then you can just rest contented at having finally "won at the universe", and look back happily on all that you've learned and achieved, contented forever after. — Pfhorrest
What, if anything, then makes lobotomizing oneself bad, granted that it will lead to greater degrees of unperturbable happiness for the remainder of one’s days? — javra
As another type of example, mass murders who've committed and continue to commit "perfect crimes" can also be said to live happy lives, and if they obtain immortality while so doing they'd be so much the happier. Should we then change our brains into such mindsets? — javra
The peak experiences I have had, which are what I imagine is more in the ballpark of the aim of transhumanist mind-alteration, feel the opposite of what I imagine a lobotomy would feel like, assuming a lobotomy would feel something like drunkenness or sedation. During a peak experience I not only feel more calm and happy and tranquil and accepting but I also feel smarter and more aware of both myself and the world around me, I take passionate interest in everything and find it all wondrous and fascinating, and I want to learn and to create, to find and build connections between everything. It's both peace and joy. — Pfhorrest
Murderers are making other people unhappy (the people who get murdered, and anyone who might miss them), even if their crimes are never discovered. It's therefore better that they not murder [...] — Pfhorrest
Also, supposing that one needs a specific motivation is kind of putting the cart before the horse, and indicates a mentality where, in that metaphor I used in my last post, the pipe drains rather than fills, so you need to find something to keep filling yourself up with. If we can instead let everyone have a pipe that fills them to overflowing, it's not a question of needing something to motivate you, because your motivation comes from inside: it's just a question of where you're going to pour your overflowing positivity, and anything at hand will do. — Pfhorrest
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