you're implying that women degrade themselves through these performances and if only things were a little more proper relations between the sexes would improve. You may not have said this explicitly but it's what I'm gathering from going over this discussion. — Apollodorus
(Over)generalization but more true than not: XX (mostly) uses sex to get what XX wants; XY (mostly) wants sex. And all the evolutionary psychobabble says 'that's why it works'. :sweat:It's a question of priorities though, and it seems that more women find wealth and power more attractive relative to more men finding physical features more attractive. Cue some evolutionary psychobabble... — unenlightened
(Over)generalization — 180 Proof
A woman in a bikini always elicits a strong response from men and even non-gay women as well. — Maximum7
when your legs are pinned behind your head and his deep testosterone-heavy voice is whispering sweet nothings in your ear. — Cobra
If there is a problem with how women are judged and valued by men, then this implies that changes must be made in the way men view women.
Men in general. Not all men, because some men, myself included, do not have any problems with women. I do not go around attacking women, disrespecting them, asking them to cover up or whatever you are accusing me of. — Apollodorus
Sounds like some secret yoga posture we haven't heard of yet :grin:
But the notion of most heterosexual women having "a disgust response talking about other women" seems a bit exaggerated to me. — Apollodorus
I suppose there is a certain degree of competitiveness, jealousy, and envy. However, I think it would depend on how competitive, jealous, or envious the women involved are, on who the "other women" they are talking about are and in what context, etc.
But I agree that broad shoulders, strong arms, and "masculine" voice are probably a factor in male attractiveness to women, which is only natural, even though women may not openly admit it.
I probably am more likely to know men who aren't very interested in fashion (since I'm not); you're probably more likely to know men who are (since you are), — Kenosha Kid
Also in my perspective, gushing over women's clothes is, in the words of the great Derren Brown, "mostly for women and gays". But I would buy that that's changing. — Kenosha Kid
As men become more obsessed with their appearance, it would make sense that they become more critical and admiring of the appearance of others. I don't think this is a particularly good thing tbh, although it might be something of an equaliser. — Kenosha Kid
assume Turner’s appreciation of her choosing to wear such a beautiful coat is really an appreciation of her covering up. I find this to be a reductionist view. It reduces her aesthetic value to an object in motion, denying her intentionality because it makes it easier to interpret Turner’s behaviour in appreciating her appearance. This perspective attributes all intentionality to society, whereas Turner is attributing intentionality to the woman. — Possibility
I said it is unnecessary, a waste of time, and I doubt that it works. — Apollodorus
man doing such behaviors to another man is certainly perceived as gay, a woman kissing another woman at a bar is supposedly not perceived as a gay act for some reason, but it certainly is. Many of these women at these bars that kiss other women and lap-dancing on each other in clubs have slept with more women than the average man that merely fantasizes. How do I know this? Because I am a woman. — Cobra
we appear to be making a lot of assumptions here — Possibility
Alright, so you're going to tell an adult (Britney, Madonna, Gaga, take your pick) who has millions of fans worldwide, has earned millions of dollars and has wide critical acclaim that their performance style of "unnecessary" and "a waste of time." — K Turner
The female body is not 'attractive' to other women except in the minds of men that project their sexualities onto women — Cobra
Men that are lazy and do not care about female sexuality use money to attract women that aren't even sexually into them. It is actually easy for men to earn money than actively attempt to be sexually appetizing to women and appease her sexual nature. — Cobra
Men vote Trump and women vote Biden, and the wall goes up until next till next time — Apollodorus
You are being factious right? — ArguingWAristotleTiff
I would say it would depend on how we define "attractive". On an "attractiveness-repulsion" scale you may have aesthetic appreciation, sexual appeal, disgust, etc. I would imagine it rather difficult for someone who has an aesthetic appreciation of physical beauty to find a well-proportioned body - any body, male or female - "disgusting". — Apollodorus
After all, the women we were talking about were talking about other women, not having them dancing on their laps. So, maybe you are exaggerating a bit.
But, in the final analysis, the real problem seems to be communication. If men and women are so different in the ways they think, feel, act, and experience everything, and conceal everything behind a wall of awkward silence, external appearances and social rituals, then how do you establish communication in any meaningful way, in the first place? — Apollodorus
BOOM. :100:Men and women are not that different. They just aren't identical. The point of my post is saying just this. Women and men are not identical due to physiological distinctions that have affects; but they are not of extreme differentiation in kind.
Establishing effective communication is easy and being done by everyone without a listening problem. — Cobra
then how do you establish communication in any meaningful way, in the first place? — Apollodorus
It doesn't matter. There is nothing attractive to me about the female form. — Cobra
Men and women are not that different. They just aren't identical. The point of my post is saying just this. Women and men are not identical due to physiological distinctions that have affects; but they are not of differentiation in kind. — Cobra
Establishing effective communication is easy and being done by everyone without a listening problem. — Cobra
Rather, the question is, do people even want to communicate? — baker
I get that. I was just curious how talking about women comes to evoke a feeling of "disgust". But, as you say, it doesn't matter.
Most women want to come off as not being 'unfeminine' talking about their desires a certain way in the presence of males, but obviously I don't care two hoots about that. — Cobra
The agreeableness of women and the lack of interest, desire and intimidation to compete with the robust social dominance of men - even down to the very fact that men have more powerful and louder vocal cords, is largely absent in women, but doesn't in any way imply women enjoy discussing other women as a preference relative to the male form and her love for male beauty. — Cobra
Personally, in my experience within straight male circles they virtually never talk about tits and ass. It would be a very strange topic to bring up around a group of men. — K Turner
I think that's really cool and brave of you, but -- and I'm sure you're aware of this -- some men are almost certainly going to take it as a sexual come-on or an indicator that you're sexually available. — K Turner
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