My method was a guess based on some known rates. For example typing rate is evidence of a rate and content.

Human DNA has about 875mb of data, or 100 odd volumes of Encyclopedia Brittanicas worth. — Pop

This is what I thought was significant - data is ones and zeros but mental content is fully formed ideas that are interconnected with the environment and dynamic.
What we take in visually if converted to pixels would be an enormous amount of data but that's not what I'm focusing on. I'm just trying to get some number range of information (as distinct items) in our brains as we use it. So I'm trying to get you to see the difference between data and brain information.

Everything that manifests itself does so in relation to something
— Possibility

:up: In the distinction of one thing and another arises two distinct forms. Hence energy and information. — Pop

?? That’s nothing like what I wrote. Can you explain how you think this is saying the same thing?

Logic is commonly defined as a proper or reasonable way of thinking about something. But what is logic
— Possibility

Logic is the only way to understand something, via a structure of knowledge. The thing understood, is understood in terms of the already established understanding. — Pop

You’re presuming that someone exists with knowledge and a capacity for understanding - ie. thinking. I’m not. I’m talking about what logic is before anything exists. What is this ‘structure’ without knowledge?

QM determines the evolution of mass. To include energy quantum field theory has to be involved, the 7 gauge fields (they INTERACTIONmediating fields) representing energy, like the photon field. Dont be awed by qft. Its very easy conceptually. The math is merely used to impress. — Prishon

I guess that was a poor choice of word on my part. As I basically understand it (and I could be wrong), most QM assumes that potential energy exists fundamentally. QFT attempts to explain how.

Energy is
So in fact all men are equal but differently formed inormation structures? To put it in a highly abstract way
— Prishon
In fact a bee equals a people... — Prishon

You lost me...

Equal in what sense?

I answer in a moment. We are eating and our puppy dog is barking... Puppy love...

So I'm trying to get you to see the difference between data and brain information. — Mark Nyquist

Data and brain information differ in quality - that is, in the value of the relation as a potential difference. Not how much it is valued. You can’t fully quantify brain information.

You can’t fully quantify brain information. — Possibility

It depends. If you mean simply entropic information then it can. The value will lay somewhere between that of a gas of free or interacting particles at high temperature, and the same particles at zero temperature. Of course this gas has to interact with the medium it's in (the body) to exist at all as a separate entity. The same holds for the body. In fact all interacting field shape one another.

There is a different form of information. I think you know which reading your stuff.

I saw a bee on top of an empty bottle Amarischia. She was looking in attracted by the sweet smell. Damned, I thought. That could be me. But without knowing.

You can’t fully quantify brain information. — Possibility

I agree, in practice we cannot.
We can define brain information as physical brain state. It's completely different than Claude Shannon information theory but is information as we know it.

You can’t fully quantify brain information.
— Possibility

It depends. If you mean simply entropic information then it can. — Prishon

Sure - hence the qualifier.

We can define brain information as physical brain state. It's completely different than Claude Shannon information theory but is information as we know it. — Mark Nyquist

Agreed. The difference as I see it is in dimensional quality. Shannon information is one-dimensional. Brain information is four-dimensional.

You can’t fully quantify brain information — Possibility

We simultaneously posted the same answer. What does that say about initial conditions?

I have the view that signifIcantly more is going on. If you expand brain state to BRAIN(mental content) and further expand to BRAIN(content representing physical matter) and BRAIN(content representing things that are physically non-existent) and further expand to BRAIN(specific mental content) then you may at some point realize *** B O O M *** that brain content representing the non-physical can control physical matter.

Everything that manifests itself does so in relation to something
— Possibility

:up: In the distinction of one thing and another arises two distinct forms. Hence energy and information.
— Pop

?? That’s nothing like what I wrote. Can you explain how you think this is saying the same thing? — Possibility

I was agreeing that thigs are relational, and I was trying to point out how this is related to the limits of thinking. Logic at its most fundamental is the relation of one thing to another. Like a field and its excitation, or the substance energy and its information.

You’re presuming that someone exists with knowledge and a capacity for understanding - ie. thinking. I’m not. I’m talking about what logic is before anything exists. What is this ‘structure’ without knowledge? — Possibility

Everything exists as an evolving body of information, such that subsequent informing fits onto existing informing, necessarily, in order to create an evolving body. All systems are enmeshed in this way, and interrelationally evolve together. Information, as the interaction of form, enables this.

Evolving bodies of information exist internal to us and external to us. Evolving bodies of information are all that exists. As stated earlier, it starts with two wavicles integrating, and then evolves from there.

Systems theory is essential knowledge for any philosopher. You don't need to understand it all. Just enough to grasp the butterfly effect, which would take an intelligent person like you, about half an hour I would guess.

This is what I thought was significant - data is ones and zeros but mental content is fully formed ideas that are interconnected with the environment and dynamic. — Mark Nyquist

:up: I see now. Yes, Information is the catalyst of evolution. But if we are to arrive at a definition of information, we need to capture all information, in every circumstance. Whilst there are some differences, I think what is significant is that one system causes the other to change - this is information.
We tend to miss the catalysing effect of the process of information, and instead just focus on the result, that data has been transferred. But if we change the focus to how information causes change, then we are closer to getting a fix on it, imo.

Ultimately, we are exchanging information, and being changed in the process incrementally. This is an important consideration in this information age, imo.

that brain content representing the non-physical can control physical matter. — Mark Nyquist

If brain content represents the non-physical, is the brain content just physical matter than? What is the non-physical?

It takes some work to explain this and I'm working at it. So non-physicals can't exist (that's my philosophical opinion) but mental content of things that are physically non-existent can exist. Since the term 'non-physical' is in use, I might sometimes use it but (technically, analytically) it is mental content of things that are physically non-existent.
I start with physical brain state that I identify as entirely physical matter. Any expansion on that state is equivalent, just with more details.

So non-physicals can't exist (that's my philosophical opinion) but mental content of things that are physically non-existent can exist. — Mark Nyquist

Im not sure I understand this:

"mental content of things that are physically non-existent can exist"

What are physically non-existent things? Patterns in matter?

Im not sure I understand this — Prishon

I get that a lot.
I use non-physical as a noun but it's more commonly used as an adjective. Does that help at all?

it is mental content of things that are physically non-existent. — Mark Nyquist

You are abstracting information from it's physical ground. If energy = matter = information, and we have had no serious rebuttal of this. You are free to do that. The world can be seen as all matter, or all energy, or all information.........instead of saying immaterial, why not say informational?

I get that a lot.
I use non-physical as a noun but it's more commonly used as a adjective. Does that help at — Mark Nyquist

Yes, I get that. I use the term magic stuff that is the content of matter.

I was asking about physically non-existing things. Is that form, information, in matter, on our neural network and physical matter out there?

I was asking about physically non-existing things. — Prishon

Ok. My definition of information is that it's the same as brain state. This isn't a common view so I'm starting from scratch to explain it. A physically non-existing thing is a general catagory of information (or brain state). Holding non-physicals is a capability of our brains and unique to our brains.

Holding non-physicals is a capability of our brains and unique to our brains. — Mark Nyquist

So your non-physicals are either energy or information, or both? All held together in matter?

. A physically non-existing thing is a general catagory of information (or brain state). Holding non-physicals is a capability of our brains and unique to our brains. — Mark Nyquist

:100:

Holding non-physicals is a capability of our brains and unique to our brains. — Mark Nyquist

Cant the physical world contain non-entropic information too? Imagine 100 different words or geometrical figures writen on a piece of paper. Or ten different Naturally occuring forms are present on stone. The entropic information (S=lnN) are the same. But the variety of forms is huge. Like there is a huge variety of animals all containing the same entropic infofmation. They are tbe result of the rotating Earth between the hot Sun and the cold universe. Heatflow can make different forms evolve. Likewise, the whole neural network can accomodate all forms present in the universe.

See my recent answer to Prishon.

:up:

Damned! How can that universe have come to be that perfect?

Cant the physical world contain non-entropic information too? — Prishon

I dunno, but our brains are at the top as far as we know.

I dunno, but our brains are at the top as far as we know. — Mark Nyquist

Why do you think that? The brain can be the universe in small.

Dunno.

Well, I dont mean litteraly a small universe. I mean forms in the physical world can all flow in the brain too. On the neural network. How can this give rise ti conscious exlerience. Thats where the essengial, magical, uncomprehensible content of matter, particles, excitations of quantum fields, given form by mediating fields, comes in handy. This would "solve" the hard consciousness priblem. Jesus. Im getting tired of myself...

And gods created it.