like Vivaldi's Four Seasons and such. Not Stravinsky.
— baker
Stravinsky reportedly said, "Vivaldi didn't write 500 concertos; he wrote the same concerto 500 times."
The quip is established enough that a 1986 book—Bach, Beethoven, and the Boys by David W. Barber—riffed on it: “People who find [Vivaldi’s] music too repetitious are inclined to say that he wrote the same concerto 450 times. This is hardly fair: he wrote two concertos, 225 times each.”
Or
"Even someone as informed as pianist/musicologist Charles Rosen attributed the quote to him [Stravinsky] when asked which composer he found most overrated:
“I'm tired of [Vivaldi]. Stravinsky once said that Vivaldi wrote the same concerto 500 times. I disagree. Instead, I think he began 500 concertos and never achieved anything in them. So he kept trying over and over again without ever quite succeeding.”
—Charles Rosen to The New York Times, 1987
The most they can do is "enjoy" some piece in their dark corner. They can be consumers, and nothing more. A nameless, faceless mass.
— baker
It would be clinically interesting to know more about the source of such opinions as this that you expose to the right of day. — Bitter Crank
During the Renaissance, together with the rest of mathematics and the sciences, combinatorics enjoyed a rebirth. Works of Pascal, Newton, Jacob Bernoulli and Euler became foundational in the emerging field. — Wikipedia
The elite have different cultural and practical predispositions than the lower class, so it only makes sense that they experience things differently. — baker
Money or influence doesn't make you hear things differently. — ssu
On the other hand, it's understandable that people don't have as a sport hobby polo as horses are expensive. But listening to classical music isn't. — ssu
If all the classical music heaped up over the centuries serves "no wholesome purpose", what in God's name does? — Bitter Crank
Is your life any better now? — baker
Have your existential fears disappeared? — baker
Are you now beyond sorrow? — baker
What's wrong with "naive, ad hoc, unsystematic, uneducated" listening to music? How many know how to play an electronic guitar? How many know the history of pop-music or rock? How are those people who don't know all that about pop or rock music so different in their liking of the music from those who do?The relevant difference is between a naive, ad hoc, unsystematic, uneducated, unstructured listening to music and with it, a naive liking; and on the other hand, a systematic, educated, structured listening, which, arguably, provides a more meaningful and profound music experience. — baker
Mmh...long time I heard that. :up:Is your life any better now? — baker
I am declaring that this is abstract expression art, the title of which is "What did the galaxy ever do for you, anyway?" — Bitter Crank
What's wrong with "naive, ad hoc, unsystematic, uneducated" listening to music? How many know how to play an electronic guitar? How many know the history of pop-music or rock?
How are those people who don't know all that about pop or rock music so different in their liking of the music from those who do? — ssu
Sorry, but it's really not a relevant difference. Yeah, if you know how to play the guitar, you might really appreciate more some virtuoso, yet is that really relevant?
I think more relevant is the hostility we take towards some music that isn't "for us". Hostility to classical music is actually quite similar to the hostility towards country music or the music "ordinary people" listen to. The music that the peasant, the redneck, the yokel, listens to in their shabby bars and gatherings. Why is that music so bad?
Take away the social or class construct around it, a lot of music is quite interesting to listen to.
What's wrong with "naive, ad hoc, unsystematic, uneducated" listening to music? How many know how to play an electronic guitar? How many know the history of pop-music or rock?
How are those people who don't know all that about pop or rock music so different in their liking of the music from those who do?
— ssu
To name just a few:
They get bored more easily by the music.
They miss out on important artistic elements.
They contribute to the culture of shallowness and the general decline of civilization into mere consumerism.
They don't meaningfully contribute to the artists who produced the art work. — baker
Actually, you made good points there.And I don't mean to be offensive. — baker
So some people put ice cubes into the best single malt whisky's there are. That's reality.I think that a person who is approaching art in a consumerist, easy fashion is not making the best use of their time and resources. It's a bit like insisting on eating cold pizza. — baker
Seems likely that music evolved as a participatory activity. — T Clark
I think that the distiller and the shopkeeper are still happy that the person bought the expensive bottle. But ....I get your point. Still, even if the consumerist doesn't or cannot appreciate the fine touches, at least he or she gets hopefully something out of it that is positive. And that counts. — ssu
I have found great pleasure in music written by people who have been dead for hundreds of years, whether that was sitting in a plush orchestra hall seat or listening to it through earphones on a bus. — Bitter Crank
Of course, on the Internet nobody knows for sure how much of what somebody says reflects their actual life and how much of it is public relations copy. — Bitter Crank
I am actually a cloistered monk with an overheated imagination in an isolated monastery and lots of time on my hands. — Bitter Crank
I came across a couple of other commercial pieces very much like this one yesterday, but for different locations, under different management. My guess is that they were created in the same shop. — Bitter Crank
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