What's tiresome on this thread, which is why I'm not really participating anymore, is the inability of some posters to accept any form of criticism of the US and NATO policy for decades contributing to the current situation — Benkei
One shouldn't then take for granted what Russia says either. There's so many blatant lies it is similar to picking up the truths in what Trump says. So going with the narrative that the Kremlin promotes is after a point a bit dubious. Likely the US can tell the truth when it fits their agenda. Similarly would Russia behave.I don't trust the Western narrative and won't unless it's corroborated by different sources and that generally takes a few months to clear up, considering how often we've been lied to. — Benkei
Although Zelensky is of course a huge celebrity in the UK already... — Isaac
Don’t know whether to put this here or in the Trump thread but oh well.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/03/exclusive-kremlin-putin-russia-ukraine-war-memo-tucker-carlson-fox/
Treasonous c***t. — Wayfarer
On Wednesday, Carlson claimed that the “Russian disinformation they’ve been telling us for days is a lie and a conspiracy theory and crazy and immoral to believe is, in fact, totally and completely true.”
The reason to focus on EU / NATO and US policy is because:
A. They have the most leverage with Russia currently. — boethius
Yep, and Elvis is still alive too apparently — Isaac
Europe and the US are aiding Ukraine alright — Olivier5
The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. — Plato (-429 — -347)
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. — sometimes attributed to Edmund Burke (1729 — 1797)
Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. — John Stuart Mill (1806 — 1873)
Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. — Elie Wiesel (1928 — 2016)
I don't trust the Western narrative and won't unless it's corroborated by different sources and that generally takes a few months to clear up, considering how often we've been lied to. If I see Russians firing at a flat, then I'm wondering whether they were fired upon from that position and we've just not been shown that. I have no way of knowing but I do know we get maybe 5% of what's actually going on. — Benkei
States don't stockpile huge amounts of samples and even if they did, said samples would be fairly useless as weapons outside of infecting spies and having them cough on people. — Count Timothy von Icarus
we are working with the Ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces should they approach — Nuland
Try throwing rocks and swear words at ... Defense industry of Russia (Wikipedia), Russia and weapons of mass destruction (Wikipedia), Infographic: Which countries buy the most Russian weapons? (Al Jazeera; Mar 9, 2022), Rosoboronexport (has a number of Putin quotes towards the bottom by the way), ... :D The invader has taken an initiative. Words/rocks ... no difference. — jorndoe
as someone who has followed and worked on migration and refugee protection for years, it is also maddening to watch this and realize that we were capable of such a response all along. Europe has worked diligently over the last decade or two to build one of the world’s most violent borders; including routine pushbacks that are linked to thousands of drownings every year. Dozens have drowned in the last few days alone.
Then there are the exchange deals of the kind that return people to slavery in Libya, alongside a vast and expanding web of military and surveillance infrastructure policing the sea, and the widespread criminalization of rescuers — Nathan Akehurst in the Jacobin
The role of selective compassion in all this has been commented on at length. In the UK, a Sunday Times newspaper cartoon welcomes refugees from this crisis, in a sharp departure from the section’s previous tasteless racism on the issue. As well as aid, one can even buy military equipment for irregular Ukrainian forces in online crowd-funders; something that in any other case would get you swiftly put on a watch-list or worse.
this is partially because the surge in violence has in this case been driven by a rival power rather than a NATO country or ally, as in the cases of Yemen or Iraq. But Europe’s swift moves to slam the door to Afghans fleeing the Taliban — hardly a friendly regime — last fall suggest that straightforward racial as well as geopolitical concerns inform such markedly different responses.
Because Nuland is not a CBRN expert either. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Open hearings after closed ones are where Congressmen like to give themselves ego boosts by answering pointed questions about things they already know the answers to. — Count Timothy von Icarus
"Russia could shell positions with anthrax... — Count Timothy von Icarus
It's fairly shit fired in a shell because VX would kill people much quicker, as would conventional shells. — Count Timothy von Icarus
The weapons, as I've pointed out, just aren't very useful outside of terrorism. — Count Timothy von Icarus
The Russians have now launched nearly 810 missiles against Ukraine -- almost half have been fired from within Ukraine using mobile platforms. The rest have been fired from Russia, Belarus, and a small number from the Black Sea. This is up from an estimate of 775 missiles offered by the official Thursday. — Ukraine using drones to 'great effect' on Russian forces: Pentagon updates (ABC News • Mar 11, 2022)
Our nations also agree on the importance of a new NATO-Russia Council that will be launched in a few days in Rome. And, Mr. President, this council is also a tribute to your leadership and your vision. For decades, Russia and NATO were adversaries. Those days are gone, and that's good. And that's good for the Russian people, it's good for the people of my country, it's good for the people of Europe and it's good for the people of the world. — George W. Bush, May 24, 2002, White House Archives
Ukraine gdp growth rate for 2020 was -4.02%, a 7.24% decline from 2019.
Ukraine gdp growth rate for 2019 was 3.22%, a 0.18% decline from 2018.
Ukraine gdp growth rate for 2018 was 3.41%, a 0.94% increase from 2017.
Ukraine gdp growth rate for 2017 was 2.47%, a 0.23% increase from 2016.
Putin will never compromise. You can’t negotiate with terrorism. — Wayfarer
you don't get to decide if someone invades you or not — jorndoe
I'm not following what's going on in the war. Who did bad faith?You can't negotiate with bad faith. It's why the whole thing started anyway: a party that makes clear that they are only willing to deal in bad faith makes thereby clear that they understand only one thing: lethal force. — baker
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