I hope the next time you hurt yourself you get cured through prayer and you don't get all 'hypocritical' and visit a doctor! — universeness

Prayers won't help. And neither does the doctor.

That's the whole point of the closure. Eternal intelligence need not be created. Only the non-intelligent stuff of the universe. — Haglund

If it’s possible for something to always exist, like eternal intelligence, then it’s possible that the universe itself has always existed. No beginning and no ending, just a constant changing of forms.

If it’s possible for something to always exist, like eternal intelligence, then it’s possible that the universe itself has always existed. No beginning and no ending, just a constant changing of forms. — Present awareness

How can something non-intelligent exist without being cretated?

Prayers won't help. And neither does the doctor — Haglund

Try the tune below. Professor Brian Cox was the keyboard player!

How can something non-intelligent exist without being cretated? — Haglund

The same way that something intelligent can exist without being created.

The same way that something intelligent can exist without being created. — Present awareness

But something intelligent existing eternally has creation power. It can create the universe out of nothing. Stupid dead matter can't create itself, even if eternal. It's too stupid for that so it had to be brought into existence an infinite time ago. Or maybe a few big bangs in the past.

But something intelligent existing eternally has creation power. It can create the universe out of nothing. Stupid dead matter can't create itself, even if eternal. It's too stupid for that so it had to be brought into existence an infinite time ago. Or maybe a few big bangs in the past. — Haglund

Dead matter was not created, if it was always there. If you believe that something may be created out of nothing, there is nothing left to discuss.

Of course they are bound. To copy heaven and life in it, they had to come up with and create particles and space in such a way that if the were let free all god creatures in heaven showed up in the universe. — Haglund

Is this your honest argument? The first cause is a copy of that which already existed? You are surely smart enough to see how that makes no sense and fails to end the infinite regress?

If you can’t make a serious case, don’t expect to be taken seriously.

Is this your honest argument? The first cause is a copy of that which already existed? You are surely smart enough to see how that makes no sense and fails to end the infinite regress?

If you can’t make a serious case, don’t expect to be taken seriously. — apokrisis

I don't take anything seriously. Seriousness is the root of all evil.

There is no infinite regress. The eternal intelligent life in the heaven dont need no first cause. Intelligent life can be eternal without the need for another intelligence to create it. But non-intelligent dead matter needs an intelligence to be created. Thats an essential difference.

The first cause is a copy of that which already existed? — apokrisis

Where did I say so?

I don't take anything seriously — Haglund

Yep. You spend all day posting and yet there is an aimless feel about these actions.

I'm tied to my home for a still few weeks. So what better to do... Just wanna get some stuff out of my mind. But indeed, I don't take it seriously. I could explain the whole of my being as some dissipative structure between two regimes of thermodynamic equilibrium (day and night), Friston blankets, Markov blankets, enactment, Gibbs free energy, periodic big bangs, etc. but religion and gods is what I'm in the mood for. Why should I describe life instead of living it? Not that I don't like all that stuff, I mean, it's fun to go cosmic and fantasize about big bangs, inflation, the nature of dark energy, preons, quantum interpretations, you name it. I believe you like that too, it seems. But why wouldn't gods exist? Gives me a good feeling! No science can explain me!

No science can explain me! — Haglund

How original.

How original. — apokrisis

Thanks! :smile:

No. That's exactly the point of gods. They give closure to the infinite regress. — Haglund

Why? The diallelus applies just the same.

I'm tied to my home for a still few weeks — Haglund

You live in Shanghai ? :smile:

Why? The diallelus applies just the same. — jorndoe

I think eternal intelligence and reason don't need another intelligence. Dead , non-intelligent matter on the other hand does need an explanation for existence. It's not intelligent enough to bring itself about.