In a computer the currents are pushed along by an external program running at clock speed. Every tick of the clock, a pattern of voltages is pushed to the next configuration on a linea recta grid on the micro chip. A zillion times per second. And you may have a zillion 1 or 0 voltages, changing a zillion times per second because an external program pushes them along — Haglund

This is completely inaccurate! When you use terms like 'push' or 'external program,' you have to be very clear about the context. External to what? the clock line? the control bus? the processor? RAM space? the computer?
How does your understanding of clock pulse relate to a home computer system which has a core of 8 processors? How exactly does a serial list of instructions 'push' bits along?

You should familiarise yourself with the exact detailed step-by-step stages involved in low-level computer operations such as the fetch execute cycle. Get to know what the clock pulse is actually used for.
Learn about the functions of the SPR's (specific purpose registers) and GPR's (general purpose registers). Learn about the Address bus, the data bus and the discrete lines of the control bus. Then you may begin to understand what's involved rather than just typing comments based on the random snap shots you are sourcing on the internet.

Nonsense. It's a fantasy which it will always stay. Can we construct a brain in a lab? No. The gods far more real. — Haglund

Who confirmed this viewpoint to you? god(s)?

Well, it seems pretty obvious to me if we cant even construct a neuron, then it’s pretty clear that we can't construct 80 billion interconnected of them at work in a body. With an on and off switch!

This is completely inaccurate! When you use terms like 'push' or 'external program,' you have to be very clear about the context. External to what? the clock line? the control bus? the processor? RAM space? the computer? — universeness

A computer uses an external voltage to push the electrons along. This voltage is programmed to push and pull. The spike potentials in the brain run autonomously. They follow the fractal shapes of the neurons, without an external voltage pulling them in a programmed way.

Well, it seems pretty obvious to me if we cant even construct a neuron — Haglund

Well here's a start:
https://www.brainfacts.org/Brain-Anatomy-and-Function/Cells-and-Circuits/2019/Build-a-Neuron-011819?msclkid=c0d93ab2c21c11ecac9c0c1f832899b4

Here is another more serious attempt for undergrads:
https://nsuworks.nova.edu/cnso_chemphys_facarticles/38/#:~:text=We%20developed%20a%20hands-on%20laboratory%20exercise%20for%20undergraduate,resemble%20neuron%20components%20and%20are%20easy%20to%20construct.?msclkid=55c122eac21d11eca5b4624d6e547ff0

Here is an actual claim for Scientists at Sweden’s Karolinska Institute:
https://news.cision.com/karolinska-institutet/r/artifical-neuron-mimicks-function-of-human-cells,c9796303

A computer uses an external voltage to push the electrons along. This voltage is programmed to push and pull. The spike potentials in the brain run autonomously. The follow the fractal shapes of the neurons, without an external voltage pulling them in a programmed way. — Haglund

I refer you to my previous response!

Well here's a start: — universeness

That's no neuron! Not even a start. Only a simulation of potentials.

Here is another more serious attempt for undergrads: — universeness

Where I read: "Basic Neuron Model Electrical Equivalent Circuit"

That is, no neuron. Only a programmed simulation of neuron potentials. No spike potentials actually running like on a real living neuron.

Here is an actual claim for Scientists at Sweden’s Karolinska Institute: — universeness

Again. In the article: "Artifical neuron mimicks function of human cells".

No real neuron.

If it walks like a.....squawks like a ......and talks like a......then it is a neuron.

If it walks like a.....squawks like a ......and talks like a......then it is a neuron. — universeness

If a ..... peeps like a neuron then it's a neuron? The phone sounds like my wife sometimes...

If it walks like a.....squawks like a ......and talks like a......then it is a neuron. — universeness

Chalmers wrote if you replace a neuron by a device coupled to the neurons the neuron was coupled to, and if that device stimulated the neurons it is coupled to in the same way the neuron does (when stimulated by coupled neurons), there will be no difference for the brain function. But think about it. This won't work.

But think about it. This won't work. — Haglund

Do your qualifications and years of experience in the field of neuroscience and biological engineering convince you of this or is it just your opinion, your educated guesswork based on your reading in the general area? My expertise is Computing Science, not neuroscience etc. If you were highly qualified in the relevant areas then your opinion on this topic might carry more weight. Your negative opinion regarding future transhumanism is no more, than one vote against, from a relative layman in the area.
My positive vote, for the possibility of future advanced transhumanism, has a similar weight to yours on the neuroscience side and more weight than yours on the computing science side.
I think that ends this thread for me. Thanks for the exchange.

Do your qualifications and years of experience in the field of neuroscience and biological engineering convince you of this or is it just your opinion, your educated guesswork based on your reading in the general area? — universeness

If you mean by qualified a piece of paper showing I have a degree in bioengineering or neuroscience, no. But I have seen, read, and thought about it. I don't know about the intricacies of computer science. I had an oral examination on the subject. I thought that was rather strange for a physics study. It was compulsory stuff! When the professor asked me "who" did do a certain job (it was the operating system, if I remember correctly, and probably the reason I passed was me asking him uncomfortable questions...), I knew for sure. Are they serious?

Until now, computers and robots haven't impressed me. You can glue a face on a robot but the robot is always faking you being conscious.

It's pictured very nicely in SF fantasies. Like in Ex Machina. But you just can't program consciousness or switch it on or off. It has to evolve naturally. The only things machines excell in: speed and quantity, loads of information pushed programmed along on a linea recta micro grid. It's like replacing a wildly flowing river, over jagged, fractal, chaotic terrain, by a system of vertical and horizontal tubes through which the river water is pumped programmed and piece-wise on the rhythm of a hyperclock.

Enjoy your fantasies! Thanks for the exchange! :smile:

How is that viewpoint any different from those who claim that we can never know the full workings of the human brain or how consciousness is created and therefore be able to replicate it. — universeness

Correction. It's not the human brain that's being uploaded, per OP. It's the mind. Not the same.

I think that ends this thread for me. Thanks for the exchange. — universeness

Don't leave just yet. You'd lower the overall IQ of this thread if you did. :joke:

But I have seen, read, and thought about it — Haglund

So has every member of this Forum I reckon.

Enjoy your fantasies! Thanks for the exchange! — Haglund

Try to combat your negativity.

Correction. It's not the human brain that's being uploaded, per OP. It's the mind. Not the same. — L'éléphant

That's another exchange! I don't hold with any posit that the human 'mind,' exists beyond the human brain. Are you a dualist?

Don't leave just yet. You'd lower the overall IQ of this thread if you did — L'éléphant

Thanks for your nice comment. It's nice to be nice and you seem like a nice person.

So have every member of this Forum I reckon. — universeness

Don't think so. I have rather detailed knowledge of the workings of the brain. It's a huge analogue, life simulator of the world, capable of grabbing every part of it and actively constructing reality.

Enjoy your fantasies! Thanks for the exchange!
— Haglund
Try to combat your negativity. — universeness

What negativity? I told you to enjoy your fantasies! Ain't that positive?

Don't think so. I have rather detailed knowledge of the workings of the brain. It's a huge analogue, life simulator of the world, — Haglund

You have not demonstrated such detailed knowledge so far. You just called the human brain a 'life simulator.' Is your brain a simulator? is it an emulator? Or is it real?

What negativity? I told you to enjoy your fantasies! Ain't that positive? — Haglund

Your negativity regarding science and the future of our species. Don't stagnate within your polytheist fantasies. Either you pass responsibility for your own life to gods or you claim it as your own and stop scapegoating them. What happens in your life is under natural controls not supernatural controls.
Be all you can be! Stop walking back towards the caves.

You have not demonstrated such detailed knowledge so far. You just called the human brain a 'life simulator.' Is your brain a simulator? is it an emulator? Or is it real? — universeness

The brain is a simulator. Every moment of your waking life, from the moment in the embryo (whose particles directly stem from the big bang, contrary to the particles of a computer) to now, the world is projected in it. By your body moving. At the same time that massively parallel projection is given shape by massively parallel free streams of patterned spike potentials (ion currents flowing from the outside of the axon inwardly and propagating (unlike the potentials in computers letting electrons flow through wires, i.e., pulling or pushing). The brain streams never stop. In your sleep they cause dreams. There are constant feedbacks between the outside, inside, and the body, the actual you. Memory, i.e., learning, is engraved by strengthening connections (widening gaps).

Your negativity regarding science and the future of our species. Don't stagnate within your polytheist fantasies. Either you pass responsibility for your own life to gods or you claim it as your own and stop scapegoating them. What happens in your life is under natural controls not supernatural controls.
Be all you can be! Stop walking back towards the caves. — universeness

Negativity towards science? I lovit! I even consider it art. Back to the caves? Why should we?

And look what we can learn! Sports (I like speed crawl!), playing music, fighting, making love in zillion ways, reading, talking, philosophizing, painting, sculpture, making computers, etc. etc.

Look what we made. A device with a face programmed to act as if...

So is your life a simulation? If human brains can only produce simulations then human experience is a logical simulation, according to your logic. Is your brain the source of YOUR polytheism? are YOUR gods therefore part of YOUR simulation?

So is your life a simulation? — universeness

No. That's the wrong conclusion. My life is not a simulation. The brain simulates the world.

The simulation of the gods refer to real gods.

The brain simulates the world. — Haglund

So YOU are real but YOUR world is a simulation?

The simulation of the gods refer to real gods — Haglund

So YOUR gods are real and simulated?

If human brains can only produce simulations then human experience is a logical simulation, according to your logic. — universeness

Now you project a logic onto me I didn't use. Why should life be a logical simulation? What's my logic used to conclude that?

Now you project a logic onto me I didn't use. Why should life be a logical simulation? What's my logic used to conclude that? — Haglund

The logic that YOU claim YOUR brain simulator, simulates!

So YOU are real but YOUR world is a simulation? — universeness

Yes. I am real. What you mean by "YOUR" world?

So YOUR gods are real and simulated? — universeness

Yes. They are simulated in my brain. For YOU, they are fantasies, simulations of nothing.

The logic that YOU claim YOUR brain simulator, simulates! — universeness

Ain't that so then? Is my claim false?

The logic that YOU claim YOUR brain simulator, simulates! — universeness

But its no LOGICAL simulation, as you claim I said.

Yes. I am real. What you mean by "YOUR" world? — Haglund

YOU are real but your brain is a simulator. Give me an example of YOUR brain simulator in action during a typical awake period when you experience the physical world. I think you conflate the word simulator with the brain being a thought generator.

Yes. They are simulated in my brain. — Haglund

Ain't that so then? Is my claim false? — Haglund

But its no LOGICAL simulation, as you claim I said — Haglund

Your typings here seem to indicate a lack of conviction on your part.
Is your brain offering you illogical simulations then?
Shall we now drop the unhelpful use of the word simulation? and I can then ask:
Is your brain generating illogical thoughts/dreams when it comes to gods?