Your imagination for punishment methods is funny — SpaceDweller

You have a strange sense of humour and I think your viewpoints on a balanced human system of justice is more driven by revenge than it is by rehabilitation. I remain conflicted between the two but I would fight vehemently against any system based on competing extremities of punitive evils.

but what if you seek justice because someone killed your family? — SpaceDweller

This can be problematic in a 'one system fits all' justice system. If you kill then the system will kill you.
What if a person considered their family a bunch of evil b******* who deserved to die. Perhaps they will seek to reward the killer rather than seek punishment. Can the justice system rely on the statement of opinion from the surviving family member and reward the killer as he/she wishes?

Hell should be mentally and physically straining, more so than it is torturing, in all but some(and therefore only in special) cases. You should always feel like a normal man and not like a demon thus punishment needs to be made neutral with reward.

He felt like a star the whole time, as he was pushed further and further into decrepit dimensions of pain, he was stabbed in the back at every surprising occasion"- Prometheus.

Why?

Hell would be more professional and we would fear it less for unruly reasons such as severity, instead, it would be like missing the good life, rather than being opposite.

You have a strange sense of humour and I think your viewpoints on a balanced human system of justice is more driven by revenge than it is by rehabilitation. I remain conflicted between the two but I would fight vehemently against any system based on competing extremities of punitive evils. — universeness

If you're so much about rehabilitation over revenge then you should favor torture over death penalty.

if you favor lifetime prison instead of death, that's is not rehabilitation either, it's waste of time for the prisoner and waste of resources for society since that person will not be able to return to society.

Putin isn't immortal, neither are his henchmen. Patience NATO, patience! — Agent Smith

:snicker:

If you're so much about rehabilitation over revenge then you should favor torture over death penalty.

if you favor lifetime prison instead of death, that's is not rehabilitation either, it's waste of time for the prisoner and waste of resources for society since that person will not be able to return to society — SpaceDweller

You are misquoting me, I stated that I remain conflicted between the two goals of 'punishment' and 'rehabilitation.' I think getting the balance correct or just improving the balance that currently exists within most judicial systems at present, is a very complicated issue.

I don't accept torture as a punitive methodology but I would use it against someone to extract information to save my loved ones or to save innocents in general but it's how I would define 'innocents' that may be problematic. Trying to avoid hypocrisy in the application of justice is very hard on a case-by-case basis.

I think the current prison system has many many problems and I do think new approaches are required.
I just don't know for sure, what they are. I do think we need much more investment in psychological studies, neuroscientific studies etc. I think we have to look much more deeply into how prisoners might 'payback' to the society they have harmed but I think it needs to be more nuanced than use of their physical labour. I think we need to study all the issues involved in far greater detail and we need many new 'pilot schemes,' conceived by those who have the best expertise in the area of 'evil behaviour,' and how to deal with it.

I certainly don't advocate your suggestions of deterrents or punishments based on mimicking the worse that evil people can come up with to abuse their victims.

Banno
16.9k
with us.
— Hillary

part of us
— Hillary

Shall we let it persist, shall we restrict it, even annihilate it?
— Hillary

evil has shown itself
— Hillary

Again, you are reifying what people do; that strikes me as a poor way of approaching the problem. — Banno

What is a better way to communicate the ideas?

Hana Arendt's essay on the banality of evil would be a good start.

Banno
16.9k
↪Athena
Hana Arendt's essay on the banality of evil would be a good start. — Banno

I am a rather busy person. Can briefly say why Hana Arendt's essay is about?

I am a rather busy person. Can briefly say why Hana Arendt's essay is about? — Athena

Basically, evil does not have power but is petty.

According to Hana Arendt, Is evil something like the wind? Does it have a cause? Can it affect life on earth? Do our actions or thoughts attract it or push it away?

if you favor lifetime prison instead of death, that's is not rehabilitation either, it's waste of time for the prisoner and waste of resources for society since that person will not be able to return to society. — SpaceDweller

What else would qualify a person for a death sentence because keeping them alive is a waste of resources? How about paralyzed people or severely mentally challenged people?

:brow:

Banno
16.9k
↪Athena :brow: — Banno

The question of the thread is What to do with the evil, undeniably with us?

SpaceDweller said.
"if you favor lifetime prison instead of death, that's is not rehabilitation either, it's waste of time for the prisoner and waste of resources for society since that person will not be able to return to society.
— SpaceDweller

It is easy to hate a mass murderer and perhaps realize it is not safe to leave this person on the streets unsupervised. What made this person like this? I think SpaceDweller argued in favor of killing these people but other things also make people useless to society and is it a waste of resources to care for them?

A broken neck can leave a person paralyzed. What good is this person to society? Various things can leave a person mentally incapable of having an independent life or maybe even learning to behave like a civil human being and require them to depend on others to keep them alive. They may or may not be pleasant people. What do they contribute to society? Many of us may face the reality of Alzheimer's Disease and become a burden on others.

What is the criteria for respecting a human's life? What does this judgment have to do with evil?

Banno
16.9k
↪Athena
Hana Arendt's essay on the banality of evil would be a good start. — Banno

I had time to read an explanation of Hana Arendt's essay. I love it! I think we saw it when people stormed the Capital Building in the US. I think this thinking is very much about Max Weber and the Prussian model of bureaucracy and education for technology.

I have a job that is all about compassion and it is also under the authority of a government bureaucracy and seriously lacking in compassion. At monthly meetings, I see the spirit of this bureaucracy is also capable of sending people to concentration camps. Those who are above me, work in fear of not enforcing the rules and losing their jobs or perhaps losing the whole program for everyone. They know enforcing the rules is harsh and against being compassionate, but they do it because they fear the consequences of not doing it.

What good is this person to society? — Athena

You might learn much about being human by hanging around with disabled folk.

There's a thread of nastiness running through this topic. It derives from the conceptual error I identified at the start; treating evil as if it were a thing rather than a choice.

Did you jump to a conclusion about me without asking questions? I think most of us have the bad habit of jumping to conclusions without asking questions. I am working very hard to break that bad habit and heaven knows, breaking bad habits is very difficult.

As for evil being a thing, I think Mongols and plagues were seen as evils or as God's way of punishing people. A problem with Christianity is one can not be sure if it is Satan or God causing terrible things to happen. A violent spirit that leads someone to kill others is an evil thing and I don't think people choose that. Such people may believe they are possessed by Satan. They may actually want to be stopped from acting on their thoughts and feelings. I don't think these things occur for supernatural reasons but I think some believe it is all caused by good and bad supernatural beings.