We went from education for good moral judgment — Athena
Keeping debunked and refuted data past their expiration date is also a problem.You do not have to agree with me, but throwing out information because it is old is a problem. — Athena
For sure if education had not changed in 1958, we would not be where we are today. — Athena
The internet is the result of the 1958 National Defense Education Act and this applies directly to the subject of this thread. — Vera Mont
The survival game (in whatever cultural setting, tribal, Western-industrial, pastoralism, farming, whatever), IS the "comply" part. If the person born into the survival-game doesn't like that game, they have no choice but to starve to death, free ride, etc. or kill themselves. It DOESN'T MATTER what the contingent social game the person is born into, imposing ANY game (arrangement of survival) is what is wrong. UNLESSS the game was LITERALLY someone's individualized idea of what a utopia is (one where even being bored doesn't exist), then forcing this arrangement of comply (with the game, any game) or die is wrong to do to someone else. That is what one is doing when procreating another person into the world... forcing them to comply with the game (of survival of ANY variety tribal, industrial, Robinson Crusoe, or otherwise) or die. That again, is wrong. — schopenhauer1
No, however many times to repeat the claim, you Obviousl. You went from a hodge-podge of state, municipal, private, religious and trades education to something more nearly coherent. Education was always aimed at producing whatever kind of work-force the economy required. — Vera Mont
Keeping debunked and refuted data past their expiration date is also a problem. — Vera Mont
Also if education had not changed in 1938, 1910, 1895, 1803, 1662, 1412, 976 and 535 BCE. Also, if there had not been two world wars, a Bolshevik revolution, a US civil war, the Seven Years' war, the war of the roses, the French Revolution, the Crusades and the Peloponnesian War... That's right; everything past produces the present. Not one event; all events. — Vera Mont
You are in a philosophy forum. What do you think education for good moral judgment is? — Athena
That was not only a drastic change in the purpose of education but also a change in how we value people. — Athena
Education for a technological society with unknown values is important to our present reality. — Athena
Probably not what you think it is. I believe good and bad moral judgment are not products of formal schooling, but the example children are shown, and the values they absorbs from their family, peers and culture. You can teach them that honesty is best policy all you want, but if their life experience shows that cheaters do prosper and the honest man is considered a sucker, most of them will cheat. — Vera Mont
Before one can have good moral judgment, one must learn the rules of logic. — Athena
Socrates was concerned with broadening our conscience, — Athena
This is why classical literature is important. — Athena
That's what I keep telling you. It didn't. "People" as a concept may have been "valued" as a concept in the official documents, but on the ground, in the battlefields and cotton fields, mines, railroads and factories, the vast majority of people certainly never had been valued as anything but commodities. The "labor market" is not, and never has been, far removed from the stock market or the cattle market.
The purpose of education was always to turn out whatever kind of work-force the economy required. The requirements of the economy changed after the US dropped Fat Man and Little Boy, yes. It had to be directed more toward technology, more toward space race and world dominance, sure.
And education had to adjust. Again. Just as it had had to adjust in the early 20th century, when automation made a lot of illiterate unskilled labour unnecessary, and demanded more skilled and clerical workers. Just as it had in the west, when tractors and harvesters rendered many farm labourers redundant, and young people going to seek work in the city needed new skills. As it changed in the south, when white farmers became sharecroppers and needed all their kids to lend a hand, just so they could scrape out a living, but the landowners, bankers and war profiteers sent their kids to private schools in Europe. Education follows the economy. — Vera Mont
How do you teach the rules of logic to a three-year-old? By the time formal educators can teach him anything, he's already absorbed his society's values. They're not about logic; they're about what's cheered and what's booed. — Vera Mont
We knew the parents would learn from their children. — Athena
No, he couldn't have cared less about us. He was concerned with the adolescents of his own time and place. His idea of virtue was probably a little different from the average American's, which is a little different from above and below average Americans'. — Vera Mont
Socrates > Quotes
“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” ...
“The unexamined life is not worth living.” ...
“I cannot teach anybody anything. ...
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” ...
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” ...
“Wonder is the beginning of wisdom.”
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Socrates Quotes (Author of Apología de Sócrates) - Goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/275648.Socrates
"You" must have been very wise to realize that all non-English speakers are too stupid to understand about democracy before they decide to make the huge sacrifice of leaving their kith, kin, worldly goods and homeland and take a chance on the new World. — Vera Mont
You keep talking about this wonderful education you used to have. I find no historical trace of it, and no resemblance to the Athens that also didn't live up to your ideal representation. And I still can't see any relevance of either to the thread topic.Today that is true of most Americans thanks to education for technology replacing the education for citizens that we had. — Athena
It isn't, you know, any more important than all the literature that's been written in the last 2000 years. You seem to make a direct link between the golden age of Athens (less than 20 years, and even in that short time, some questionable situations arose) and some kind of golden moment, or maybe distilled essence
of America. There is no such link: everything in between happened. All the awful and hopeful, shameful and triumphant stuff happened. The moving erases nothing, forgets nothing. — Vera Mont
You keep talking about this wonderful education you used to have. I find no historical trace of it, and no resemblance to the Athens that also didn't live up to your ideal representation. And I still can't see any relevance of either to the thread topic. — Vera Mont
You keep talking about this wonderful education you used to have. I find no historical trace of it, and no resemblance to the Athens that also didn't live up to your ideal representation. And I still can't see any relevance of either to the thread topic. — Vera Mont
Democracy through education lifts the human potential. — Athena
In the past, we associated virtues with strength, and our honor or reputation was very important along with our dignity. — Athena
So, where did all of those properly educated citizens - which should be ever American who went to school - go? What happened in 1958 to disappear any effect they might have had? Why didn't they stop the steal? — Vera Mont
My grandmother walked away from the schools that made the change because the school interfered with classroom discipline. She went on to a private school that did not interfere with her classroom. And then she became a Vista Volunteer and worked with immigrant children and taught their mothers how to play the piano in the evening. When she could no longer reenlist in Vista she went home and volunteered at another school. And our local newspaper was staffed with people of her generation and they were as well-mannered and virtuous as she was I am sorry younger people can never experience the reality we had because now all these older people are dead and every generation we get further from them, the worse things get. If you knew those old people, we would not be arguing.I don't know which past or which "we" that refers to, but it doesn't leave much trace in the history books. Maybe it's just in the elementary school readers and the inscription of statues. Symbolic. — Vera Mont
Number one all those people knew no more about education than you do. Nor do Americans know any more about philosophy and the Age of Enlightenment and what both have to do with democracy and education than you do. — Athena
if they did know about education for democracy and good citizenship as my grandmother did, they were powerless — Athena
Do you see many people engaging in the argument? — Athena
Who is a better human being? The average American, the average Chinese, the average Indian, ...? — Agent Smith
Two things about that: NONA and There is no such animals as an average person — Vera Mont
The average person, how would you define him/her? — Agent Smith
I wouldn't. I don't believe in them. — Vera Mont
How about if I ask "what would most Americans/Iranians do?" Does that make sense? — Agent Smith
↪Athena Education is important and by education I mean a wholesome one. Statistics should aid you and Vera Mont decide who's right even if only partially. Who is a better human being? The average American, the average Chinese, the average Indian, ...? Why? Education!
:coffee: — Agent Smith
The issue was whether education makes a difference/not. How would you go about answering this question? — Agent Smith
What's the point of a democracy where the properly educated citizens are powerless against an elected government's decision to change their good education system for a bad one? — Vera Mont
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