I mildly disagree, having heard some of Dawkins' opinions on Islam.
But I don't really care what he thinks.
And again - Why do you? — Vera Mont
People religious belief or atheism and metaphysical stance are being used to advocate for policies that effect us all. — Andrew4Handel
Wtf. Now you're moving goal-posts. :roll:How can you disbelieve in something you have heard of with out any reasons? — Andrew4Handel
Pure BS. We're all "open" to such "reactions" no matter how loose or rigorous our arguments. I prefer sublime cathartic or ecstatic to the more ambiguous terms "numinous" or "transcendent", but in the contexts which The Hitch had used them I think his irreligious meaning was clear enough.BS reactions such as:
anglican samizdat. — universeness
Atheists want religion to be perfectly clear and this itself is against faith. — Gregory
"How am I supposed to know which religion to follow" implies one is not immersing themselves in religion — Gregory
Faith involves using discretion and reacting even when reason doesn't give a reason. — Gregory
Religious people have caused an incredible amount of unnecessary suffering with their "value of human life" claptrap — Vera Mont
This is most apparent in his debate with William Lane Craig. Now physicist Sean Carroll utterly obliterated Craig in a debate that I often watch as a cheer me up. Craig is a smug cocksucker. — Tom Storm
What are your examples here? — Andrew4Handel
I want to live in a society that values human life and doesn't endorse or encourage suicide and devalues palliative health care — Andrew4Handel
It's a lot easier to want than to solve; a lot cheaper to decree than to repair.The US long-term care system — such as it is — is broken. Hundreds of thousands of Americans are on waiting lists for home-based care. More than 40 million people report that they have cared for a loved one over 50 without any pay in the last year. The United States ranks near the bottom of developed economies in the number of older adults who receive long-term care at home. Meanwhile, America’s nursing homes are staffed by overwhelmed and underpaid workers, and for-profit takeovers of those facilities have led to worse care for patients.
You say religious people have caused immense suffering but which ones? — Andrew4Handel
I especially like this bit:The Bible views suicide as equal to murder, which is what it is—self-murder. God is the only one who is to decide when and how a person should die. We should say with the psalmist, “My times are in your hands” (Psalm 31:15).
killing other people is fine and holy - as long as they don't want to die.Some consider Samson’s death an instance of suicide, because he knew his actions would lead to his death (Judges 16:26–31), but Samson’s goal was to kill Philistines, not himself.
Atheism is the absence of belief in God.
— Agent Smith
Every monotheism is "the absence of belief" in every god except "the one God" ... that's not saying much. I prefer to be clear: either (A) belief that there aren't any gods or (B) disbelief in every god. – they are roughly synonymous as far as I'm concerned (and is my preferred definition of atheism until about fifteen years ago when I traded-up from mere clarity to precison ...) Anyway, the latter formulation (B) may seem more defensible than (A), but it's not, as they are two sides of the same shekel; complementaries such that (A) warrants (B) and (B) assumes (A).
Smith, my point is: disbelief is a mode of active belief and not a passive "lack of belief" as Andrew4Handel's thread's title (OP) suggests. — 180 Proof
And I want to live in a compassionate society that helps people as long as they can be helped, then lets them go when they decide it's time for them to go. I do not believe in the abstract "value of human life". Life has value to the one [not exclusively humans] living it and the ones who are affected by it. I do believe in the autonomy an dignity of individuals. — Vera Mont
I do not wish to impose my values on you, but you want to impose yours on all of society. — Vera Mont
Nobody is authorized or empowered to lay that burden on me. My beliefs and unbeliefs are subjective and autonomous; I owe nobody a justification for them. Actions are - or may be - a different matter. — Vera Mont
I mentioned this case:"A Paralympic army veteran told stunned lawmakers in Canada when she claimed that a government official had offered to give her euthanasia equipment while fighting to have a wheelchair lift installed in her home" — Andrew4Handel
Am I?You are making things up here. — Andrew4Handel
I want to live in a society that values human life and doesn't endorse or encourage suicide and devalues palliative health care — Andrew4Handel
I know that. Because after a long, arduous fight, in which many people suffered through years of litigation, against people who think they know better what is right for us than we do ourselves, we finally made assisted suicide - under stringent regulations - legal. What you cite is unlikely to have been legal - but nor was it lethal.This is in Canada — Andrew4Handel
in the UK ...we have a Free health service.
I used the US example, because they have more religious institutions than the UK or Canada, and we would expect to see more church supported elder care, but basically, we're all in the same deep doo-doo: too many old people, too many diseases, not enough resources.The cost-of-living crisis is compounding desperate conditions in the UK’s social care system, following the widespread collapse of care standards during the COVID pandemic, culminating from decades of privatisation and austerity cuts.
People values are imposed on each other through democracy and when one persons values triumph another persons loses out. — Andrew4Handel
Burden of proof is a social convention governing debates/arguments, so yes, in a sense, they are. — busycuttingcrap
Proof of what, exactly?It often seems to me that some atheists use the lack-theism definition as a way of getting out of having to meet their burden of proof — busycuttingcrap
Proof of what, exactly?
"People tell a story. I find that story implausible, so I don't believe it."
"You haven't proved that it's not true!"
And I maintain that it's not my job to prove or disprove it. It's somebody else's story. — Vera Mont
Atheists can, and very often do, engage in debates or arguments, and so end up making claims. — busycuttingcrap
didn't say that all do, or that anyone in particular does. — busycuttingcrap
It often seems to me that some atheists use the lack-theism definition as a way of getting out of having to meet their burden of proof and/or epistemic justification. — deletedmemberbcc
Atheists want religion to be perfectly clear and this itself is against faith. Faith involves using discretion and reacting even when reason doesn't give a reason. "How am I supposed to know which religion to follow" implies one is not immersing themselves in religion — Gregory
Craig is a smug cocksucker. — Tom Storm
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