Agnosticism is not having a belief concerning god.
— Banno
Therefore rocks are agnostic! — fdrake
If you're not a theist, then you're an atheist. Don't be afraid of the word. If you are not a believer in any kind of deity then you're effectively an atheist. I think many people with 'spiritual beliefs' are atheists. — Tom Storm
I am an agnostic atheist - a standard definition amongst atheists I know. Agnostic in terms of knowledge, atheist in terms of belief. — Tom Storm
I also think the idea of god is incoherent and lacks any explanatory power, I really don't know what people mean by god except as a kind of vague, Tillich-like mystical metanarrative, or more frequently, a literalist mega-moron as per Islam or Christianity. — Tom Storm
Yes. Atheism is a response -- part rational, part emotional -- to traditional religious god-models of a "magic man" in the sky. But philosophers typically avoid anthro-morphic definitions for their ultimate/universal (non-particular) Ontological theories. And, since their logical models are hypothetical, they don't claim to have physical evidence to support their notions of Logos or First Cause.There's nothing accomplished by invoking god in any context I can think of, unless you happen to have particular questions that seem better when stoppered up by a magic man. — Tom Storm
Based on what I'm reading, it sounds like you are closer to ignosticism - which (in essence) says that the very notion of a deity or deities is incoherent. — EricH
I am pistically atheist and epistemically agnostic. — Fooloso4
Yes. Atheism is a response -- part rational, part emotional -- to traditional religious god-models of a "magic man" in the sky. But philosophers typically avoid anthro-morphic definitions for their ultimate/universal (non-particular) Ontological theories. And, since their logical models are hypothetical, they don't claim to have physical evidence to support their notions of Logos or First Cause. — Gnomon
Perhaps you "don't care" about the esoteric mysteries of Eastern Religions or Quantum theory — Gnomon
And the esoteric mystery of Ontological origins is a fundamental philosophical concern. :smile: — Gnomon
↪Banno It makes sense to me to think of agnosticism as uncertainty concerning god (i.e. epoche)... which makes the religious and irreligious, fundies and secularists, theists and atheists, alike also agnostic as well. Is 'being agnostic simpliciter' even possible? I suppose Pyrrhonians think so ... — 180 Proof
It makes sense to me to think of agnosticism as uncertainty concerning god (i.e. epoche)... which makes the religious and irreligious, fundies and secularists, theists and atheists, alike also agnostic as well. Is 'being agnostic simpliciter' even possible? I suppose Pyrrhonians think so ... — 180 Proof
The way I defined morality in the post you quoted from will do for the sake of this discussion. Why do you believe, Andrew, that nature doesn't ground a definition of morality like mine that has no need of 'supernatural support'? — 180 Proof
It seems impossible now to be an atheist uninfluenced by religious cultures and to be able to claim these cultures could have been created by atheists. — Andrew4Handel
I have no idea what a purely atheist history of humans would have looked like. — Andrew4Handel
If people don't agree on a definition of morality then that is an unresolvable problem itself with no objective arbitrer to refer to — Andrew4Handel
Maybe. I generally agree with that gods are incoherent ideas. But it is easier to say one is atheist as it's a word people know. — Tom Storm
Sure. But nor could you claim that atheists could not have created a similar culture. Or even that it might have been better (less guilt, less piety, less misogamy, less ritual, less colonization, less hang ups about sex, etc). — Tom Storm
Even within the one religion there is no agreement about morality. — Tom Storm
I think it is a straw man to present God in a way that seems easy to disbelieve like portraying God as the Flying Spaghetti monster which ridicules the notion of God so people forget about the more sophisticated arguments like causal role/explanatory Gaps. — Andrew4Handel
They are presenting God in ways that are relatively easy to disbelieve. — Bradskii
The role religion had in morality is in claiming there was a moral law giver and that that entity could generate moral truths. — Andrew4Handel
If they reached the current conclusion of evolution by natural selection thousands of years ago what influence would that have had on them? — Andrew4Handel
art of the current thinking is that there is no teleology or purpose or end goal plus the eventual heat death of the universe through entropy. — Andrew4Handel
Are you including the philosophical arguments for God in this?
The cosmological argument.
The moral argument for God.
Aquinas's Five ways
The ontological argument
The argument from beauty
The argument from consciousness
The teleological argument — Andrew4Handel
The cosmological argument.
The moral argument for God.
Aquinas's Five ways
The ontological argument
The argument from beauty
The argument from consciousness
The teleological argument — Andrew4Handel
You keep forgetting that there is not an atheist worldview. — Tom Storm
Yep, the traditional 'proofs' of god. Most atheist books and freethinker polemical works respond to these old things. There are thousands of pages answering these arguments. — Tom Storm
So the atheism of e.g. materialist Marx and idealist Schopenhauer "entails" the same "worldview"? :sweat:You keep forgetting that there is not an atheist worldview.
— Tom Storm
That is what I am disagreeing with and the argument of this thread. I have been arguing it entails a worldview. — Andrew4Handel
I don't think atheists should be complacent in their atheism nor religious people complacent in their theism. It is an ongoing process of trying to understand reality and find meaning. — Andrew4Handel
That is what I am disagreeing with and the argument of this thread. I have been arguing it entails a worldview. — Andrew4Handel
I think that there are nihilist consequences to atheism in conjunction with scientific materialism that has been promoted and denied at the same time. — Andrew4Handel
What was the motivation for notable atheist Lawrence Krauss writing the book — Andrew4Handel
This goes against the idea of a simple disbelief in gods if you have to write thousands of words in response to arguments for God. — Andrew4Handel
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