A fact is not true or false. There are no false facts, only false claims and beliefs about what is a fact. — Fooloso4
What Wittgenstein is saying is that you can create any proposition you want by starting with the whole set of atomic propositions and negating a certain subset of those. — Reddit
Facts, considered as true propositions are necessarily true. If a propositons or description is false it is not a fact. Facts considered as actualties are not true or false, they simply obtain. — Janus
Are you saying true propositions are necessarily true? — Sam26
So, I should have said that if a proposition is to be correctly counted as a fact, it must be true. — Janus
What Wittgenstein is saying is that you can create any proposition you want by starting with the whole set of atomic propositions and negating a certain subset of those. — Reddit
6.001 What this says is just that every proposition is a result of successive applications to elementary propositions of the operation N(ξ).
Science as removing the false propositions from logical space...? — Banno
The problem is atomic propositions are an a priori assumption. He never identifies an elementary proposition. Without elementary propositions we cannot get started. — Fooloso4
You are thinking of 'fact' as equivalent to 'actuality'. — Janus
In a different sense, the encyclopedia is a compendium of facts, or true propositions and descriptions. — Janus
Following the Tractatus, there is a distinction between facts, which are a combination of objects (2.01), and statements of facts which are propositions. — Fooloso4
What value does any of this obviousness have? The important part is figuring out the true propositions. — schopenhauer1
He doesn’t really go into a thorough investigation on how to determine true propositions other than the circular understanding that it’s atomic facts, deduction of these atomic propositions and some remarks about observation and empirical investigation. — schopenhauer1
4.01 A proposition is a picture of reality.
2.223 In order to tell whether a picture is true or false we must compare it with reality.
4.05 Reality is compared with the proposition.
4.06 Propositions can be true or false only by being pictures of the reality.
You have provided the answer: observation and empirical investigation.
4.01 A proposition is a picture of reality.
2.223 In order to tell whether a picture is true or false we must compare it with reality.
4.05 Reality is compared with the proposition.
4.06 Propositions can be true or false only by being pictures of the reality. — Fooloso4
So it's neat that you interpreted him this way — schopenhauer1
It doesn't tell us what true propositions are or anything like that, so I don't quite see the significance here of his project. — schopenhauer1
He's basically saying, "Anything beyond atomic facts and their combinations is nonsense". — schopenhauer1
But without explaining what makes something true, this is just a preferential or prejudicial statement about what statements/propositions are meaningful. Something he saw clearly as an error in his later work. — schopenhauer1
2.221 What a picture represents is its sense.
2.222 The agreement or disagreement of its sense with reality constitutes its truth or falsity.
6.53 The right method of philosophy would be this: To say nothing except what can be said,
i.e. the propositions of natural science, i.e. something that has nothing to do with philosophy:
and then always, when someone else wished to say something metaphysical, to demonstrate
to him that he had given no meaning to certain signs in his propositions. This method would be unsatisfying to the other—he would not have the feeling that we were teaching him philosophy—but it would be the only strictly correct method.
These were direct quotes from the text. — Fooloso4
4.01 A proposition is a picture of reality.
2.223 In order to tell whether a picture is true or false we must compare it with reality.
4.05 Reality is compared with the proposition.
4.06 Propositions can be true or false only by being pictures of the reality.
True propositions are those that accurately picture reality, propositions that state the facts. — Fooloso4
It should be noted that Wittgenstein is neither affirming or denying metaphysical beliefs, he is attempting to draw the limits of what can be said. And what can be said is what has a sense, what can be determined to be true or false.
6.53 The right method of philosophy would be this: To say nothing except what can be said,
i.e. the propositions of natural science, i.e. something that has nothing to do with philosophy:
and then always, when someone else wished to say something metaphysical, to demonstrate
to him that he had given no meaning to certain signs in his propositions. This method would be unsatisfying to the other—he would not have the feeling that we were teaching him philosophy—but it would be the only strictly correct method. — Fooloso4
I didn't see anything about empirical observation. — schopenhauer1
That is either saying nothing or saying something so obvious as to be not worth saying, "Ok, and anything of significance?". — schopenhauer1
Each person describing reality thinks they are accurately picturing reality. — schopenhauer1
It doesn't explain why observation and empirical evidence is more important than intuition, feeling, immediate sensation, abstractions of imagination, etc. — schopenhauer1
6.432 How things are in the world is a matter of complete indifference for what is higher. God
does not reveal himself in the world.
6.4321 The facts all contribute only to setting the problem, not to its solution.
6.44 It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists.
6.45 To view the world sub specie aeterni is to view it as a whole—a limited whole.
Feeling the world as a limited whole—it is this that is mystical.
6.52 We feel that even when all possible scientific questions have been answered, the problems of
life remain completely untouched. Of course are then no questions left, and this itself is the answer.
6.522 There are, indeed, things that cannot be put into words. They make themselves manifest.
They are what is mystical.
How can we compare a proposition to reality without empirical observation? — Fooloso4
This needs to be read against what he says about metaphysical propositions. The former have a sense the latter do not. — Fooloso4
Right, and how do we determine which is an accurate picture of reality? There are facts about the world, but no facts about God. — Fooloso4
Some people like speculating — schopenhauer1
I think this might be what is really at issue for you, at least in part, although it does not explain your apparent animosity. You like speculative philosophy. — Fooloso4
4.221 It is obvious that the analysis of propositions must bring us to elementary propositions
which consist of names in immediate combination.
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