An old joke - Shut up he explained. — T Clark
I'm wondering why the topic of incels, this legion of unattractive toads, is so popular a thread on TPF. — BC
The way doublespeak works is that the preaching is "It doesn't matter whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game." but the practice is that it doesn't matter if you cheat as long as you win. This is mainstream culture, and as old as politics and patriarchy. — unenlightened
It's difficult to know if you and T Clark have realised how offensive is the idea that women (especially) should be compassionate towards an organized online group ("incels", the subject of this thread) that considers them to be semi-sentient animals who want to be and should be raped by them and otherwise enslaved to give them pleasure. — Baden
Is this your way of saying you never understood what the thread was about or you never understood what incels were? I think it's fair to be curious about who you think you're going to bat for here. Would you also demand compassion for Nazis and white supremacists? Or is it that you never meant incels but as Hanover has specified, unaligned marginalized young men who are not misogynistic etc. I think it's reasonable to ask that that be specified considering there's a significant difference there. I don't believe it is at all humane to demand sympathy for victimizers over victims. Quite the reverse. (Not a mod issue btw, no.) — Baden
We can and should be compassionate towards them. — BC
Compassion is the province of individuals...
I don't recollect advising women to be compassionate — BC
You said "we", not individuals. In normal parlance that is a generalised "we" that includes women and everyone else. — Baden
suggests you don't know what you're saying. I don't want to hound you but I think it's fair to ask what you're talking about. — Baden
From what I have heard of incels, I am reasonably comfortable to write them off - the way I would virulent racists or any other vile bigotry. No doubt everyone has there reasons, no doubt there's a perspectival, George Lakoff-style way to understand their conceptual framing and contextualize their value systems, etc. But I find it hard to give a fuck. — Tom Storm
and then specify you're talking about others more deserving of sympathy. — Baden
guys we are not good at getting in relationships... — ChatteringMonkey
guys we are not good at getting in relationships...
— ChatteringMonkey
They say... But did they want to? Were they trying? If they were unsuccessful, you assume it's because of factors they can't help and can't change - and that's generous of you. But is not necessarily the case.
Nice guys want to understand things in their own framework, on their terms. So do not-nice ones. So they misinterpret and misestimate one another's intentions. — Vera Mont
It's not as if there is an International Incel Foundation that sets forth a mission statement and clearly defines their ideology. An incel at his base is an involuntary celibate, meaning someone who desires female interaction, but does not receive it. — Hanover
Far as I'm concerned the vast majority of disagreements on this thread would simply dissolve if we all recognised that the term "incel" signals a specific ideology of hatred and misogyny that goes beyond a difficulty establishing romantic relationships. I don't know how more evident this needs to be or why it's such a block. — Baden
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