Jeez man, this is vulgar Israeli propaganda and people believe it! Wow, suddenly Hamas has rockets that can destroy entire hospitals. — Manuel
The question then becomes whether (1) this was an accidental misfiring or (2) whether it was purposeful. It would seem the likelihood of an Israeli intentional targeting of a Palestinian hospital is unlikely, considering the political fallout that would result. It is possible it was an accident by the Israelis. In terms of whether it was accidental or intentional by Hamas, either explanation works, considering their missles are notoriously inaccurate and also it could be intentional considering the political gain they'd derive from it if the Israelis could be blamed. — Hanover
Something like that. I haven't heard myself incoming artillery fire, only outgoing. But there's there's a difference. Of course the fire that will hit you won't be heard as it's coming supersonic.Oh I get it (the Doppler Effect, if I remember correctly), more high pitched when it's in-coming and more low pitched when out-going. Like with racing cars. Thanks for the effort. — neomac
I assume it was taken from Gaza as it looks like being taken from the same urban area. And I presume that WSJ make their due diligence on the video.how do you know that the video recording was taken with Gaza in the back or Israel in the back? — neomac
but from the point of view of someone near the hospital, that missile would be "incoming" regardless of if it said "courtesy of HAMAS" written on it or "IDF", right? — flannel jesus
That hit it, yes. But notice a stray rocket has a different trajectory.It was "incoming" either way, regardless of its source — flannel jesus
Lol. I can make some observations from one video, but naturally that doesn't say much. I haven't seen the Israeli account, but just as @Tzeentch said, there was an usually quick media effort made to make the terrorists responsible for this. And there is a natural motive for this when Biden comes to Israel. As I stated, it's an awkward moment for a President that is in Israel to show solidarity, but then again try to uphold the image of being an mediator.This is to say, both you and ssu throw out accusations that the Israeli account is preposterous, but then when asked for some sort of cite, nothing is provided. — Hanover
(CNN) President Joe Biden arrived in Israel Wednesday for one of the most complicated diplomatic trips of his presidency, an extraordinary high-stakes trip to a region gripped by violence, including an explosion at a Gaza City hospital that he said appeared to be done by “the other team.” In his first public remarks on the hospital bombing, Biden explicitly offered Israel – and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – his support, with wording that labeled Palestinians as others. The moment, and Biden’s off-the-cuff wording, revealed the complex diplomatic balancing act he must navigate.
“I was deeply saddened and outraged by the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday. And based on what I’ve seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you. But there’s a lot of people out there who’re not sure. So we have to overcome a lot of things,” he said.
The president did not elaborate on what evidence led him to that conclusion.
how do you know that the video recording was taken with Gaza in the back or Israel in the back? — neomac
I assume it was taken from Gaza as it looks like being taken from the same urban area. And I presume that WSJ make their due diligence on the video. — ssu
If it's something that never happened before I would agree. But the extensive documentation provided by human rights agencies in the 2012, 2014, and other Gaza massacres have shown that this is not abnormal behavior for Israel at all. See for instance the Goldstone report. — Manuel
As a side note, this is an excellent source for human rights abuses by Israel on the occupied territories, by an Israeli Human Rights organization, very much worth looking at in general:
https://www.btselem.org/ — Manuel
If it's something that never happened before I would agree. But the extensive documentation provided by human rights agencies in the 2014, 2016 and other Gaza massacres have shown that this is not abnormal behavior for Israel at all. See for instance the Goldstone report. — Manuel
A 20kg explosive that probably hovers somewhere between civilian-grade and military-grade will produce a decent boom, but 500 dead + presumably many more wounded sounds extraordinarily high for such an explosion, especially if walls were seperating people from the blast. — Tzeentch
There's an equal chance that your foray into forensic pyrotechnics began about 20 minutes ago and you have no idea what rockets are within the Hamas arsenal, what their explosive power is, and no idea what forces the hospital structure could withstand. — Hanover
If I were engaging in a credibility assessment of your comments, I would be led to the conclusion that you're willing to provide reasons for Israeli misconduct that are not supported by the evidence only to withdraw those arguments when challenged, and then to rely upon other grounds to support your prejudged conclusion that it was the Israelis, meaning I would see your opinions as biased towards what you wanted to conclude anyway. . — Hanover
Unfortunately Hamas fighters run also on food and water, like the civilians.3 - In light of President Biden's demand, Israel will not thwart humanitarian supplies from Egypt as long as it is only food, water and medicine for the civilian population located in the southern Gaza Strip or moving there, and as long as these supplies do not reach Hamas. Any supplies that reach Hamas will be thwarted." — Manuel
Based on previous actions, which have been widely reported. I can refer you to several books if you want to read the myriad of abuses and crimes committed by Israel, as well as taking a look at the Israeli human rights organization which I posted. — Manuel
1 - Israel will not allow any humanitarian aid from its territory to the Gaza Strip as long as our abductees are not returned.
2 - Israel demands the Red Cross visits to our abductees and is working to mobilize extensive international support for this demand.
3 - In light of President Biden's demand, Israel will not thwart humanitarian supplies from Egypt as long as it is only food, water and medicine for the civilian population located in the southern Gaza Strip or moving there, and as long as these supplies do not reach Hamas. Any supplies that reach Hamas will be thwarted." — Manuel
So, back to what we're talking about. What evidence do you have that the bombings could not have been the result of a Hamas weapon due to the fact that Hamas lacks the firepower? — Hanover
And on CNN:Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Neranyahu has claimed that “a barrage of rockets was fired by terrorists in Gaza, passing in close proximity” to the building at the time it was hit. He cited military intelligence as indicating that Islamic Jihad, one of the militant groups operating in Gaza, was behind the purported launch
“An analysis of IDF operational systems indicates that a barrage of rockets was fired by terrorists in Gaza, passing in close proximity to the Al Ahli hospital in Gaza at the time it was hit,” IDF posted to its Telegram account. — CNN
I have no evidence that Hamas did blow up the hospital, based on the missiles they have.
Now the context is important, but you seem to want to downplay it, for lack of "official reports." The context is, there is clear as day evidence that Israel is bombing Gaza to the stone age, without care about who is killed.
I don't know if that "type of evidence" achieves the high standards you demand. — Manuel
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