"God exists" is not a claim of fact about how the world is ... like "Zeus exists" or "The Infinite exists" or "Truth exists" or "Justice exists" or "Consciousness exists" ... — 180 Proof
God exists is not just an idea, an ideal, or a 'representation' of god, It is a declaration to be taken as literal fact, when it is uttered with all the conviction that a devout theist can muster."God exists" – idea ideal idol icon – is only a claim about "god". No burden of proof obtains. :naughty: — 180 Proof
wrote, you just referred me to a previous, very recent post you typed, that I had already considered and rejected for the reasons I have given above. You are trying to claim that theists who say 'God exists,' are not claiming to be making a statement of fact (no matter how learnered they are). They are really saying that 'it's merely possible that a god exists.' If that were true, then they would agree with the atheists who also say that god existing is not impossible as the proposal is not falsifiable. There is no strength to your position, imo, so far.T. Aquinas, I. Kant, M. Buber, P. Tillich, J-Luc Marion, J. Caputo et all) — 180 Proof
By 2050, the unaffiliated population is expected to exceed 1.2 billion. — universeness
Of course, we will keep on and you and all future humans are welcome — universeness
You mistake me, sir! I am not a future human. I am a past human. — Vera Mont
You make the extraordinary claim - all empirical evidence to the contrary - that humans have a future, while demanding empirical evidence regarding a tenet of faith, which affects that future in no way whatever. One of us appears to be less realistic - though happier withal. This is why I don't grudge the believers that little scrap of comfort their delusion provides. — Vera Mont
To suggest that gaining ever-increasing agreement with that position, amongst the current human global population, would make no difference to the broad directions humans may take in the future, is just ridiculous and is dead wrong imo. — universeness
Of course, we will keep on and you and all future humans are welcome and don't need to show your gratitude. Including those who used to care enough to help, but have since given up, or have significantly reduced their efforts to do so. — universeness
We are beginning to repeat! — universeness
I don't understand this. What three 'models' of humans? How does a universal standard of living, rights, freedoms and opportunity not allow for gender diversity? — Vera Mont
and your age and your health status, are not the only variables that can affect your ability to be a force to be reckoned with and a force for good — universeness
I have a problem with a previous post about education for technology. Sure we need that technology to make it possible for so many people around the world to survive, but we might even be coming to an end of what this technology can do for us. No matter what, perhaps the most important thing for us to know is how to be happy and share that happiness with others. — Athena
And we are nearing Thanksgiving and dealing with the reality of pretty serious family problems. It is hard to know which problems are the most urgent and demanding of my attention. — Athena
Right, a democracy encourages diversity but not necessarily gender diversity. — Athena
Living together successfully based on a foundation of lies and fables is not my idea of wisdom. — universeness
Why should it need to? In a functioning democracy, if the majority desires freedom of self-expression and respect for the individual, diversity is automatically provided-for. If the majority desires equality before the law and of opportunity, class malleability is assured. I don't see the problem with a democratic system being able to maintain a basic standard of living and autonomy for every citizen. — Vera Mont
It never was, though its spokesmen have loudly proclaimed the very pinnacle of the democratic ideal. At the moment, nobody believes it. Indeed, a number of far-right commentators have declared that "too much democracy" is detrimental to democracy.I do not about other democracies but in the US a significant number of people insist the US is not a democracy. — Athena
Do you think our species needs such a foundational model, to be able to obtain a broad global standard of being, for all humans? — universeness
That would not be fun. Having 3 models for humans or only one just doesn't work for me. It does not go with you can be anything you want to be and right now that includes sexual differences beyond what I thought the choices were. — Athena
don't see the problem with a democratic system being able to maintain a basic standard of living and autonomy for every citizen. — Vera Mont
How is that done? — Athena
I think humanity as a whole has been serving the machinery of the masters of war for too long.
One day that will stop (and we won’t even need to throw out most of the machines). — 0 thru 9
It never was, though its spokesmen have loudly proclaimed the very pinnacle of the democratic ideal. At the moment, nobody believes it. Indeed, a number of far-right commentators have declared that "too much democracy" is detrimental to democracy.
But that's not what universeness was talking about. Not everybody is preoccupied with the USA, and he especially has a global, rather than national, vision:
Do you think our species needs such a foundational model, to be able to obtain a broad global standard of being, for all humans? — universeness
That would not be fun. Having 3 models for humans or only one just doesn't work for me. It does not go with you can be anything you want to be and right now that includes sexual differences beyond what I thought the choices were.
— Athena
don't see the problem with a democratic system being able to maintain a basic standard of living and autonomy for every citizen. — Vera Mont
How is that done?
— Athena
Very simply by every vote having exactly the same value as every other. That way, when everyone votes for their own self-interest, the majority decision is always in favour of what's best for the majority - in policy, law-enforcement, services, infrastructure, economic disparity, production and distribution. That's exactly why any efforts at cleaning up the electoral system is invariably followed by a right-wing backlash: functional democracy tends inevitably toward permissive secular socialism. — Vera Mont
When since 1789 has the USA been a "democracy" and not an oft-illiberal (minoritarian electoral college-rigged, gerrymandered-vote suppressed, nativist, imperialist) constitutional republic? :chin:The USA defended its democracy ... — Athena
Believing "we are a democracy" has never made it so, mam.I hate the argument over if the US is a democracy or not but we have fought every war for nothing if we do not believe we are a democracy. — Athena
I hate the argument over if the US is a democracy or not — Athena
?fundamental moral and political equality of all men and recognizing no barriers of race, religion, or circumstance. — Athena
The word is a good slogan and recruitment tool, but is certainly not the reason for wars.we have fought every war for nothing if we do not believe we are a democracy. — Athena
Nothing, when they are pronounced as and delivered as fiction.Ah, ah, ah what is wrong with fables! — Athena
But the biblical ones are! That's one of the main problems of religion, yes? Lies and fables and resulting edicts on how humans must behave based on the fantasy words of non-existents.and are not considered the word of God. — Athena
An electron may be a field excitation and not be in any true sense, an independent particle. A repeating process.Suppose 'strong AGI' furthermore proves that every electron is the same electron — 180 Proof
Divine hiddenness for starters. AI would have to demonstrate gods existence just like theists do. If a future AI claims god exists then it will have the same burden of proof that human theists do. Do you think an advanced AI would make a faith statement? If it does then it is not an advanced AI, imo.on what basis then, universeness, would you refute its proof that this 'same – one – mind' is God (the PSR)? — 180 Proof
The Jews must be admired because no matter what happens to them, they remain Jews. Unfortunately, that is not true of our democracy. — Athena
we have fought every war for nothing if we do not believe we are a democracy.
— Athena
The word is a good slogan and recruitment tool, but is certainly not the reason for wars. — Vera Mont
So, not a fan of the American melting pot? My immigrant ex-compatriots assimilated in one generation and seem none the worse. (In fact, given the current state of my native land, far, far better!)
What's so admirable about stiff-necked adherence to a foreign culture at sharp variance with the country in which one is living? That national identity has brought the Jewish people no end of strife and sorrow, and culminated in occupying another people's land, marginalizing and pauperizing those other people (by 'right' of having done it once, a long time ago, then lost it to a second and third invader) with the aid and continued patronage of great imperial powers, becoming a nation that commits war crimes.
My sympathies lie with the ten lost tribes.
That's just a by-the-way about how critical culture really is. — Vera Mont
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