No, so it can't lie. — Lionino
Lying is definitely intentional. It's the difference between being misinformed (and passing that on) versus knowing you are misinforming the person you're passing the information on to, intended them to believe it to be true, or correct. — AmadeusD
Isn't lying a behavior*? Also, would p-zombieland even have the word "lie" in its language? If not, then their language would be a lot different than ours, if so, how could zombies come up with a word like "lie"? — RogueAI
It's certainly intentional, but it's also behavioral. If zombies can't lie, then they're not behaviorally the same as us, which they're supposed to be. — RogueAI
Lying is telling something other than what you know to be the case (truth). P-zombies know nothing and intend nothing. So they fail to lie. They would also have the word "lie" in the language they seem to speak, but they wouldn't be thinking about the way they use language. — Lionino
I suppose one could argue that lying is not a behavior — RogueAI
What about my other question: would zombies have a word for lying? — RogueAI
The issue is that you are not clear about that.
P-zombies can utter the word "lie". Are they invoking the concept of a lie when they say "lie"? No, they have no mind. — Lionino
Suppose we have a world similar to ours was 50 million years ago. There are little p-zombie hamsters running around avoiding p-zombie dinosaurs. The p-zombie hamsters evolve into p-zombie humans. You're claiming the p-zombie humans would go around talking about lies and occasionally accusing each other of lying? How would their language have any referents to mental states? — RogueAI
I am not sure how biological and linguistic evolution would be different in the absence of mind, and I don't even wanna think about it, but it is tangential to the matter. — Lionino
The zombie does not know anything, does not feel anything, it does not think. — Lionino
If you have one solve a math problem and look at what it's brain is doing with a brain scanner, you'll observe it's brain is doing something. If that something isn't "thinking", what is it? — RogueAI
The zombie brains have to be doing some kind of information processing. — RogueAI
Why would the p-zombies of such a world be discussing their consciousness?A p-zombie has some kind of behaviour triggered by a causal chain that starts in the outside world. A sleepy plant closes when touched by something. The plant is not thinking, yet it reacts to the outside world. A p-zombie would receive light, sound, smell input, and react accordingly. — Lionino
The premise of the TE is what it is. Nobody here came up with it. We're just discussing the premise. A couple of us are saying it is not valid. — Patterner
I don't know what TE is. What is happening here is me having to explain over and over that p-zombies don't have minds. And then people asking me about p-dinosaurs and p-evolution and p-art and whatnot.
Honestly, I don't know about p-art and p-relationships and p-politics. I don't care about p-zombies, it is a derivative issue from deeper issues that have been addressed plenty in the history of philosophy. — Lionino
I say the TE is invalid. If they were only receiving imput from their senses, from inside and outside their bodies, and only reacting to the stimuli as the laws of physics allow and require, they would not be thinking of consciousness, or saying they have it when asked. — Patterner
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