Not, I hope, too dissimilar to the OP, which gave a neat rendering of the arguments, which I addressed. — Banno
that seeing a thing consists in constructing a representation of that thing. — Banno
Can you give an example of something which is physically direct, and explain what you would mean by "direct" in that context? — Janus
see representations is equivalent to saying we see seeings — Janus
All topics are dead ends on every philosophy forum. — flannel jesus
Which is why I've tried, at length, elsewhere, to delineate between "to look", "to see" and "experience"
You look at something with your eyes, experience a representation, which is seen in the mind. — AmadeusD
it wasn’t posited as either so I’ll just leave that. — AmadeusD
see representations is equivalent to saying we see seeings
— Janus
Yet, this is exactly what is intimated by the claims of direct realists, — AmadeusD
I think it is less confusing to say that the little light you are seeing is Mars presenting itself, appearing, to you. Language may be representative, but seeing is not, and the analogy you present above is inapt. — Janus
I agree it is more parsimonious to simply say we see Mars — Janus
Similarly, the word "is" can be used in different ways in language... — RussellA
The problem with Direct Realism is that it assumes an identity between what is seen and the cause of what is seen. It assumes an identity between the bright dot and the planet Mars, such that the bright dot "is" Mars, otherwise the Direct Realist could not see the external world as it really is.
And if this is the case, in that the bright dot "is" the planet Mars, how can a bright dot in the visual field have a mass of 6.4∗1023kg? — RussellA
When looking up at the night sky, if the Direct Realist doesn't literally see dots in their visual field, what do they see? — RussellA
Stars, planets, moons etc. Indirect realists sees dots that represent stars, planets. The direct realist sees the stars and planets that may appear as dots, discs, or spheres etc depending on distance, available light etc. — jkop
If the Direct Realist suggests that the dot "is" Mars, this reintroduces the problem of identity, in that how can a 1mm diameter dot in a person's visual field "be" a 6,794km diameter planet? — RussellA
However, if we're going to amend these accounts of words to incorporate useful delineations, then we 'perceive' directly the representations which we are 'seeing' indirectly, — AmadeusD
Like I have mentioned many times before, Indirect Realism is no more skeptical realism than Direct Realism is. — Ashriel
Then there is probably not much point in my continuing.I still think that Indirect Realism is the best way to describe what occurs, but that's probably because of my other epistemological and metaphysical views, like dualism and internalism. — Ashriel
Direct Realism is aka Naïve Realism. Indirect Realism is aka Representational Realism,. — RussellA
I would think the representation is some collection of neurons in our brains firing with some relationship to a brainwave phase. However, I don't think it makes sense to say that "I see such a representation." At best I only vaguely imagine such a representation. — wonderer1
I don't think it makes sense to say that "I see such a representation." At best I only vaguely imagine such a representation. — wonderer1
No amount of prevarication can make that a direct process. — AmadeusD
Why not have Deep AI do its own prevaricating?...DeepAI... — AmadeusD
We see things directly through the process of vision. When light enters our eyes, it passes through the cornea, then the pupil, and is focused by the lens onto the retina at the back of the eye. The retina contains cells called photoreceptors, which convert the light into electrical signals that are sent to the brain via the optic nerve. The brain then interprets these signals as images.
This process allows us to see objects directly in front of us. We are able to perceive things without the need for any intermediary devices or reflections. Our brain processes the visual information in real-time, allowing us to perceive objects, colors, shapes, and movement directly.
In contrast, indirect seeing would involve perceiving objects through mirrors, cameras, or other reflective or refractive surfaces. This would involve the light reflecting off an object before reaching our eyes, resulting in a altered or distorted image. However, our direct vision allows us to see things as they are without any obstructions or alterations. — DeepAI
When light enters our eyes, it passes through the cornea, then the pupil, and is focused by the lens onto the retina at the back of the eye. The retina contains cells called photoreceptors, which convert the light into electrical signals that are sent to the brain via the optic nerve. The brain then interprets these signals as images.
This process allows us to see objects directly in front of us. — DeepAI
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