No rhe second just says that the belief is true. Whether I am certain about it is irrelevant. Saying a belief is true, no matter how certain of that I might be, does not make it so. — John
This Stanford article lists by my count 118 titles in the bibliography, many - most - with the word "truth" in the title, and none that I saw that had the word "true." And this makes sense, because the the subject is truth, not "true." — tim wood
Perhaps we should give up the pursuit of Truth (with a capital T) and begin thinking that truth is really a way we have of speaking of what we agree on and what we find persuasive. In this way we should focus on truths (with a small t)." — tim wood
If I recall, your definition of "true" is that which, after a tiresome number of iterations of justifications, falls under a comfortable assumption we can have confidence in. — tim wood
An example occurs to me: You have a large pot of beans, thousands of them. I hold up a bean and ask, "What is this?" "A bean," you answer. "Prove it," sez I. And you do. Then I hold up another bean and ask, "What is this?" At a fundamental level this is a fair question and one that can be asked of every single bean. — tim wood
So: truth is the -ness of anything that makes that thing what it is. It is real, the reality of the thing. Condensing a bit, we end up with truth is reality and reality is truth. — tim wood
Or it could be the brick-ness of bricks, or the -ness of anything. The point is the "-ness." It bridges, it seems to me, the gap between the thing and the idea of the thing. How I'm not sure, maybe by putting them together. To have bricks and brickness, you need both. And this is unremarkable. We do it every day, all day, without a second thought, or any thought at all. This -ness is a fact, is real. It has an "always already" quality. Just as a hammer is always already a hammer, even before we have a use for it, or even know what a hammer is. — tim wood
I don't understand you, and don't see your point. How does saying "this belief is true" differ from saying "I am certain of this belief"? — Metaphysician Undercover
The first statement concerns the truth of a belief, and the second concerns your attitude towards the belief. They are two very different things. I think it is incredible that you cannot see the distinction. — John
The first statement affirms what the speaker thinks of the belief, "it is true", it does not confirm that the belief is true. — Metaphysician Undercover
This doesn't make sense, it's meaningless. You have taken the statement "it is true that X", and removed it from any speaker, claiming that no one has spoken it. This is to completely and absolutely remove it from any possible context, and leave it meaningless.The "it is true that X" part is independent of anybody's beliefs. — John
When someone says "this belief is true", what it means to me is "I think this belief is true". If to you, it means that the belief is true, then you'll believe anything anyone ever tells you, and be forever deceived. — Metaphysician Undercover
No, when someone says "this belief is true" it just means that this belief is true. — John
Again, you failed to get my distinction between the two senses of "means". — John
If I assert that lighthouses are lovely, what I assert is that lighthouses are lovely, and it can be inferred from my asserting this that I believe it. But I am not asserting that I believe it. At some point you have to get to something that you're willing to call the content of the belief or the assertion. If you're always sticking "I believe" or something in front, you'll never get to what you believe. — Srap Tasmaner
And truth attaches or doesn't to the content of your beliefs. We say, "What you believe is true (or false)." — Srap Tasmaner
This is nonsense; sentences don't get their meanings by being said; sentences can only be sayings at all insofar as they are already meaningful, otherwise the saying would just be meaningless noise or scribble. — John
Sentences do not exist unless they are said. — Metaphysician Undercover
If I believe that lighthouses are lovely, the content of my belief is "Lighthouses are lovely," not "I believe lighthouses are lovely," unless you like infinite regresses...
...when different propositions within, or across, these disciplines contradict each other, it is not possible to evaluate which are true or false in absolute terms. It is only possible to demonstrate whether the claims by each system are coherent.
I realize that the following quote wasn't directed at me, but it is something I find quite interesting...
If I believe that lighthouses are lovely, the content of my belief is "Lighthouses are lovely," not "I believe lighthouses are lovely," unless you like infinite regresses...
Doesn't this imply that thought/belief is existentially contingent upon language? — creativesoul
You wrote:
I think you are pretty much right about this. I had to think about it for a minute. Thinking about animals, who do not possess language, I suddenly find that I don't particularly think they have beliefs or thoughts.
They have a certain basic level of consciousness / awareness, but I wouldn't go as far to say that animals have beliefs. A dog might stare at a lighthouse, even find it pleasant in some way, but I am not thinking that a dog could have a fully formed belief that the lighthouse is indeed lovely.
If I really do hold a belief, I think I have to be able to express it in at least some kind of basic language, verbal, written, mental, on paper, etc.
That goes even more for thought. i don't think you'r really doing what I would call real thinking without some kind of ability to express it in language. Would you agree?
On my view, you're reporting upon your own thought/belief, and identifying the content of the report on it's own terms, and then calling that the content of your belief. — creativesoul
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