One of the moderators told me he was getting complaints about me from member X. I concluded that I should, could, and would leave member X alone. Ignore, not comment on, not annoy further.

The solution to that problem, anyway, turned out to be quite inexpensive.

the pleasure of unearned moral superiority. — Thorongil

Have I offended you, or are you a gratuitous shit merchant? I am doing my best. Clearly it has been and continues to be inadequate. Perhaps you can help?

Have I offended you, or are you a gratuitous shit merchant? — unenlightened

It's not so much that I feel offended, but that I find you to be a rather offensive and offense-taking person. I've never reported you or anyone else. I haven't asked a mod to ban anyone. I only just now discovered in this thread that John Harris was banned. I thought he probably would be, but I never called for it and never reported him. This, despite the fact that I've been subject to some rather nasty abuse by him and others over the years. It's the Internet, and I'm able to take things with a grain of salt and move on. Why can't you? What does your time on this forum really mean, in the grand scheme of your life?

Perhaps you can help? — unenlightened

I did. I said you need to ignore Kevin, as several other people have suggested you do.

One of the moderators told me he was getting complaints about me from member X. I concluded that I should, could, and would leave member X alone. Ignore, not comment on, not annoy further. — Bitter Crank

Well yeah, clearly from that member that told you to fuck off. That member is literarily quite deluded, and has proven to be someone who lives in their own hateful world, totally unaware of what exists around them. And this isn't even the first time!

And I've treated this member very nicely. I've conceded a lot of ground that some people have suggested that I shouldn't have conceded. I said that I apologise if any of my remarks offended the said member even though the said member had no real reason to feel offended. However, the said member hasn't returned the cordiality or ever attempted to excuse themselves for making completely outrageous claims. This is the kind of person who literarily thinks - listen to this please - that everyone else thinks I'm a sexist. This is the kind of person who thinks I want to take away women's voting rights! Literarily! This kind of person thinks if I had power, I'd force them to live at the periphery of society or something :s And it seems that this person actually believes these things about me! This person ain't saying them merely for rhetorical effect.

Now let me show you what I actually sent to another member by PM in a private discussion. So that you will see how utterly nasty I am:

So what's dangerous about it? I think the Church should welcome homosexual people, and I do think homosexual people have gifts and qualities that are valuable too. We should certainly treat homosexuals with kindness and respect, so long as they're not of the violent leftist kind. — Agustino

It actually turns out that I'm the opposite of the kind of person this deluded individual is trying to portray me to be. And everyone who knows me knows that this is true. I respect and love women, I have women friends, and I have absolute respect for them. How anyone could say that a rhetorical remark I made about "women on TV" as an example of our lust and wrong values in society counts as sexism is utterly beyond me. How anyone could think of me as a racist, homophobe, etc. is also beyond me.

And now because this person is threatening to leave or I don't know what they're threatening if the house isn't arranged as they like it, I don't think any of us should feel bad about it. They should be willing to look at things from the perspective of others, and be apologetic where they deserve to be apologetic. Concessions and cordiality cannot come just from one side.

I don't think that is a good policy, for two reasons. 1. It can't be done; some people are more tolerant of abuse than others. Typically it is a learned male trait to 'take it like a man', so it disadvantages half the population at a stroke. 2. Kevin is contagious: call me a dick and I'll likely call you one back, and when people who like to call other people dicks find that they can call people dicks, you end up with threads full of dicks calling dicks dicks. — unenlightened

Excuse me unenlightened, we all know that this isn't the first time you've tried to pull off a shameful public stunt to get rid of me. Who do you think believes you now? Probably even you yourself have stopped believing in it.

I did. I said you need to ignore Kevin, as several other people have suggested you do. — Thorongil

I don't think that is a good policy, for two reasons. 1. It can't be done; some people are more tolerant of abuse than others. Typically it is a learned male trait to 'take it like a man', so it disadvantages half the population at a stroke. 2. Kevin is contagious: call me a dick and I'll likely call you one back, and when people who like to call other people dicks find that they can call people dicks, you end up with threads full of dicks calling dicks dicks.

You have to understand that in theory, and in the old forum in practice, it was my business to deal with Kevin. I hope you are not suggesting that we have an unmoderated forum?

Excuse me unenlightened, we all know that this isn't the first time you've tried to pull off a shameful public stunt to get rid of me. Who do you think believes you now? Probably even you yourself have stopped believing in it. — Agustino

Dude, you annoy me to fuck, but I love you like an oyster loves the grain of sand that produces a pearl. I wish you would be a little more considerate, but I do not want you banned.

But this is not an invitation to become fuck buddies, I am happily married - well, happily, I am married.

So I am assuming that "Kevin" refers to at least one actual flesh and blood member... — 0 thru 9

There are no flesh and blood members here. We are all emotionless inhuman, fictional characters, which we have created ourselves, no feelings, no sensibility, characters. This is no Facebook, we have no faces.

it's all been done before
It's all written in the book — Bob Dylan

.

I wish you would be a little more considerate, but I do not want you banned. — unenlightened

So tell me unenlightened, if there is an extremist around who cannot bear to have conversation with those who disagrees with them, and actually - through the statements they make - show that they have an utterly false view of the world, should we peddle to their insecurities? If so, why? If they want to leave, that is fine - nobody can keep them here by force if they don't want to. But this is a philosophy forum where you have to meet with and discuss RESPECTFULLY with people who are different from you. I have shown that I am interested to and open to discuss with such members. But I don't appreciate when they spread false information about me, when they are persistently judgemental, and show no willingness to frankly talk and work together on issues. I've earned the respect of the people that I have earned it precisely by being open to rational conversation and listening to their views respectfully, even when I disagree. And I disagree with most people here more often than not.

But take someone like Bitter Crankus. I highly respect BC and if I was the owner of this forum, quite honestly BC would be a moderator. And yet I disagree with him on most everything.

Heister Eggcart is also someone I very frequently disagree with, but I've learned a lot from interacting with him on the forum, and have found his presence valuable. I don't think we've ever "fought together" with ill feelings, or hatred towards one another.

I don't think we need to talk about Kevin. I think there's been too much talk as of late on topics such as Kevin and his alleged misdemeanours, and much of it has amounted to petty squabbles, mudslinging, and hot air. I'm getting sick of it, and I think it's about time that we all moved on. In fact, I think it's long overdue. Kevin isn't as bad as people make out. I don't think that he's a murderer, or at least, he doesn't mean to be. Yes, he did wrong. So did the other Kevins. But what's done is done. If there are lessons to be learned, how about we contemplate what they might be - in blessed silence.

It seems that some moderators are indeed wise...

Typically it is a learned male trait to 'take it like a man', so it disadvantages half the population at a stroke. — unenlightened

Females today are not fragile little creatures needing your protection.

I hope you are not suggesting that we have an unmoderated forum? — unenlightened

No, but I would be as hands off as possible. I requested this before, but there really needs to be an ignore feature on this forum. That's a pretty glaring oversight by its makers. Nonetheless, it is still possible to ignore users you don't like, so I still have a hard time feeling sorry for you.

I don't think we need to talk about Kevin. I think there's been too much talk as of late on topics such as Kevin and his alleged misdemeanours, and much of it has amounted to petty squabbles, mudslinging, and hot air. I'm getting sick of it, and I think it's about time that we all moved on. In fact, I think it's long overdue. Kevin isn't as bad as people make out. He isn't a murderer. Yes, he did wrong. So did the other Kevins. But what's done is done. If there are lessons to be learned, how about we contemplate what they might be - in blessed silence. — Sapientia

(Y)

But take someone like Bitter Crankus. I highly respect BC and if I was the owner of this forum, quite honestly BC would be a moderator. And yet I disagree with him on most everything. — Agustino

BC would make a good moderator. Not so much for his philosophical expertise, but for his social and communication skills. We agree about something again, how annoying!

I don't think we need to talk about Kevin. — Sapientia

It's not obligatory. I am interested.

Not so much for his philosophical expertise — unenlightened

This is enormously underrated, I find. Inasmuch as philosophy is the pursuit of wisdom, he's far wiser than most of us.

Kevin isn't as bad as people make out. I don't think that he's a murderer, or at least, he doesn't mean to be. — Sapientia

Is that any excuse for murdering? "I don't mean to murder, it just sort of happens every time I pick up a gun". If Kevin can't go to the keyboard without typing something bad, there's a problem.

It can be, to some extent, actually. Mens rea is very important in law. But no, not completely, and I never suggested otherwise. As I said, he did wrong, as did the other Kevins.

That's a big "if" you got there - an exaggeration and a hypothetical hardly worth considering. It illustrates my point that Kevin isn't as bad as some might lead you to believe. If any Kevin, whether this one or that, types something bad, and you notice it, then go flag it. Until then, you're just making noise and jumping the gun, and that's something I'd rather not hear about. I've heard more than enough already. Come back with something fresh and concrete, preferably in private, and I'll lend you an ear.

Well yeah, clearly from that member that told you to fuck off. — Agustino

Actually it wasn't the fuck off bandit. It was a humorless he whom I had hassled by suggesting that he should meet my equally humorless sister. I had also suggested that humorlessness was an early sign of alzheimers. He was aghast.

That's a big "if" you got there - an exaggeration and a hypothetical hardly worth considering. — Sapientia

Hey,I'm just following the conversation. I haven't a clue who Kevin or the other Kevins are, or the petty squabbles and mudslingings (which have no place here anyway). For all I know I could be the one and only "Kevin".

But if Kevin's a murderer, then Kevin's a murderer, whether he means to be a murderer or not.

Suppose we're all fictitious characters here. We put on an act, and this is who we are at tpf. MU's not the real me, who I am in real life, and Sapientia's not who you are in real life. Kevin is murdering at tpf. Is this part of Kevin's act, or is Kevin a bad actor and he's allowing his true self to show through? Either he's a bad actor or he's acting badly, what's the difference?

Enter the "too much of nothing" problem mentioned by Dylan. — Bitter Crank

I've been doing plenty over the last few days, and I have a trip to prepare for, so no, I have no objection and no, I won't be talking about Kevin today.

EDIT: I did read the discussion just now though and seen as some unfortunate stuff has happened I may have to weigh in after all.

1) @Agustino You're not that bad and you're not that good. Your grandiose speeches about yourself are fun and I enjoy reading them. Your sexist comments, not so much. Don't make them any more. That's it really.
2) Nobody should be telling women how they should feel about sexism. If you can't walk in someone else's shoes, don't tell them which ones to wear.
3) @Mongrel What can I say? I don't blame you. I hope you'll change your mind.
4) Anyone got a lonely planet guide to Shanghai I can borrow?

this is the kind of person who literarily thinks - listen to this please - that everyone else thinks I'm a sexist. — Agustino

You a sexist? NO! Who would have thought such a thing? You might, on one or two occasions, been just a teensy bit sexist. I don't know, maybe you once rendered a woman invisible or something. She was probably quite annoyed by suddenly not being something to see, I suppose.

Any way, who am I to talk?

BTW, Small high minded groups that are mostly male generally worry a lot about there being no, or so few, women in their group. "Oh, we're driving women away." "Marx was a sexist, you know." "Males always dominate the conversation, which oppresses women." and so on. Once I brought a woman-friend of mine (co-worker, so don't start any rumors) to a meeting to get her judgement about the socialist group I had been telling her about. Her summary about the socialist group probably applies here too: "It's just a bunch of heady males." She could be a bit heady herself, so she was pointing more toward "Males just don't communicate the same way women do." This is true -- we don't. And equally true and not better, "women just don't communicate the same way men do."

So here we are with one, two, or three women, which embarrasses some here because we should, they think. be 50/50. The fact of the matter is, the heady males mentioned earlier weren't attracting a whole lot of other heady men to the group either. We're doing well to have as many heady males here as we do, so we should not wait for hundreds of eager philosophers (50% penises, 50% vaginas) to beat the door down next week.

By comparison, there are some gay posters on Tumblr that have 40,000 followers from the Tumblr platform. I don't know how they do it; I've been working on my blog for 7 years and haven't quite cleared 5,000 followers. (In fairness, most of anybody's followers are dead accounts which have long since been abandoned since they "followed" somebody.)

A bit of perspective - it's an internet forum. It seems to me there's sometimes a bit too much emotion being invested in it. I do understand the pull of Being Right, although I have worked it out of my system to some extent.

Anyway, good call to ban 'John Harris' or whatever he or she is called. Must be a very lonely person.

how about we contemplate what they might be - in blessed silence — Sapientia

As Ludwig Wittgenstein the Wise said, that which ought not be discussed out loud must be stewed over in silence.

Not so much for his philosophical expertise... — unenlightened

Damnation by faint praise.

Inasmuch as philosophy is the pursuit of wisdom, he's far wiser than most of us. — Thorongil

That's more like it.
>:)

Why, everyone says you're a wise guy! :D

He was also quite anally retentive.

The film also didn't have a happy ending. It was painful to watch Kevin's mother deal with the grief, shame, guilt, and ultimately failure to protect those for whom she was responsible.

Hey,I'm just following the conversation. I haven't a clue who Kevin or the other Kevins are, or the petty squabbles and mudslingings (which have no place here anyway). For all I know I could be the one and only "Kevin". — Metaphysician Undercover

It's rare to encounter a Kevin who literally can't go to the keyboard without typing something bad, and they don't last long. That isn't true of any Kevin that I had in mind.

But if Kevin's a murderer, then Kevin's a murderer, whether he means to be a murderer or not. — Metaphysician Undercover

Sure, but I don't think that Kevin's a murderer. Not the Kevin I know, anyway.

Suppose we're all fictitious characters here. We put on an act, and this is who we are at tpf. MU's not the real me, who I am in real life, and Sapientia's not who you are in real life. Kevin is murdering at tpf. Is this part of Kevin's act, or is Kevin a bad actor and he's allowing his true self to show through? Either he's a bad actor or he's acting badly, what's the difference? — Metaphysician Undercover

¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

Who were the Kevins on the old forum?