Religious doesn't make one bad, but it makes one do bad, by most lights. At least, the ones unopen to update. — AmadeusD
I have questioned the moral standing of those who believe in eternal damnation. — Banno
When one of Ludwig Wittgenstein’s graduate students allowed how much he regretted the Church’s condemnation of Origen’s doctrine that God would eventually abolish hell and redeem the whole world (including the devils), the philosopher shot back: “Of course it was rejected. It would make nonsense of everything else. If what we do now is to make no difference in the end, then all the seriousness of life is done away with.” — Edward Oakes - Balthasar, Hell, and Heresy
I think when the restriction is "the ones unopen to update" its not a tough one. — AmadeusD
out-groups. — AmadeusD
There are lots of traditional religious groups (not open to updating) which nevertheless do not engage in the sorts of things you pointed to. — Leontiskos
the West's compassionate attitude towards out-groups comes precisely from Judaism and Christianity. — Leontiskos
This is wholly irrelevant. — AmadeusD
but always fucking religion. — AmadeusD
But supose that I have understood all you had to say, and yet still reject theism. — Banno
Except for Hitler, or Stalin, or Pol Pot, or any of the other counterexamples to your assertion that it's always religion. — Leontiskos
But if, as we both now agree, faith is neither good nor bad, why is it that everything else you bring up about faith has to do with fathers murdering their children and fools acting without evidence or reason? Or theism? Because that doesn’t sound “neither good nor bad” to me. — Fire Ologist
Fundamentalists treat articles of faith as if they were empirical, evidence based facts, and that is where the trouble begins. If, instead, intellectual honesty prevailed and the faithful acknowledged that their faith is for them alone, between them and their God, so to speak, then they would not be arrogant enough to commit heinous acts purportedly in the name of God. — Janus
I never though otherwise. I wasn't aware that this was a potential bone of contention.I can’t seem to make you believe that I think there are non-theological ways to understand and act on, faith. — Fire Ologist
Simply becasue that is the argument I was pursuing....why is it that everything else you bring up about faith has to do with fathers murdering their children and fools acting without evidence or reason? — Fire Ologist
I'm not going over it again. Good to see you struggling with the conceptualisation, though. Keep going.So - how is faith “neither good nor bad” as you said before? — Fire Ologist
There's a lot in this. An ideology is another example of a belief that is not to be subjected to scrutiny.Right, I wouldn't say it's always religion, but it's always ideology, which includes religion. Ideologies are like religions in that they are faith, not evidence, based. — Janus
That might be down to the what your question was phrased, since Janus/ answer seemed quite relevant.Don’t you see how none of what you just said addresses what I asked? — Fire Ologist
Pretty fucking rude. So atheists are none of them "moms and dads, loving their kids"?Religious people, generally, are softies, to the core. Lots of moms and dads, loving their kids. Not many thoughts like you are all having. — Fire Ologist
Religion/religious fervour is the chief source of global harm. — AmadeusD
So - how is faith “neither good nor bad” as you said before?
— Fire Ologist
I'm not going over it again. Good to see you struggling with the conceptualisation, though. Keep going. — Banno
Religious people, generally, are softies, to the core. Lots of moms and dads, loving their kids. Not many thoughts like you are all having.
— Fire Ologist
Pretty fucking rude. So atheists are none of them "moms and dads, loving their kids"? Fuck off. — Banno
Religious people, generally, are softies, to the core. Lots of moms and dads, loving their kids. Not many thoughts like you are all having.
— Fire Ologist
Pretty fucking rude. So atheists are none of them "moms and dads, loving their kids"? Fuck off. — Banno
I wasn't aware that this was a potential bone of contention. — Banno
when I think of faith, I think of moms and dad living their kids. — Fire Ologist
Right, I wouldn't say it's always religion, but it's always ideology, which includes religion. Ideologies are like religions in that they are faith, not evidence, based. — Janus
If we are going to do real philosophical work then we have to have real definitions. What almost always happens in these discussions is that the atheist builds their petitio principii right into their definition of faith. This is how the atheist ends up defining faith:
Faithath: "Irrational assent" — Leontiskos
Faithath is a bad pathway to truth. The point is that if you can't stop appealing Faithath then you're just begging the question. You are committing fallacies, over and over. — Leontiskos
But if, as we both now agree, faith is neither good nor bad, why is it that everything else you bring up about faith has to do with fathers murdering their children and fools acting without evidence or reason? Or theism? Because that doesn’t sound “neither good nor bad” to me. — Fire Ologist
I imagine that a contemporary Western religionists tends to envision a nuclear family that enforces patriarchy, heteronormativity, or other power dynamics. — praxis
Religious people, generally, are softies, to the core. Lots of moms and dads, loving their kids. Not many thoughts like you are all having. — Fire Ologist
Pretty fucking rude. So atheists are none of them "moms and dads, loving their kids"? Fuck off. — Banno
I don't think this thread has ever moved beyond my observation:
If we are going to do real philosophical work then we have to have real definitions. What almost always happens in these discussions is that the atheist builds their petitio principii right into their definition of faith. This is how the atheist ends up defining faith:
Faithath: "Irrational assent"
— Leontiskos — Leontiskos
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