:grin: :up:

the real determined by negating unreals — 180 Proof

This looks like the two (supposed) polarities get expressed, one in terms of the other. This is entanglement. Contrast ≠ independence. Your configuration of entanglement here implies some complexities that might undermine your goal of categorical separation. Speaking generally, the mission to establish absolute separation_independence of things is more idealist than real. We know this because gravity, a fundamental force, entangles everything, even within the realm of a priori cognition.

Do you agree that query is the spine of both logic & philosophy?

Do you understand metaphysics as Aristotle understood it? He thought it was a label, as a part of a classification system, when he coined the word right? To him it was "after the physical," meaning, the not strictly physical stuff. An example is human perception. Like scientists of today, he thought metaphysics was an emergent property, arising from the physical. This view is consistent with monism-physicalism, right? Is this something like your view?

Well, you must mean something by "individuality" when you use the word. — baker

I want you to share your thoughts on the following three enemies of individuality.

Peer pressure; ad copy; disinformation

What I've learned in our conversation - I go on at length when a brief statement will do; I indulge whimsy to the detriment of my position; I grossly exaggerate the cogency of my arguments; I sometimes promote language arts above logic; my imaginative sallies sometimes break contact with common sense.

Alas, I have no didactic bullet list of individuality markers.

I don't understand what you're asking. — 180 Proof

If I cannot state, without doubt, the essential nature of a thing, and yet, there is no doubt I'm looking at & contemplating the nature of an existing thing, then, it follows logically, that that thing being contemplated supports a range of speculations about what it might be.

I'm asking you to list some (or all) of the members of the range (set) of speculations about what What is a question? might be. I want you to take special care to include members (reasonably accurate WRT the apparent identity of the thing) that are non-questions.

It follows that a putative question finally undecidable as such might actually be not a question at all but, instead, a declaration, command, exclamation, expletive etc.

It's not clear what in this story sets a "strong example of individuality". Could you sketch it out? — baker

The guy's in love with the woman, but he thinks she had a fling with him on the rebound from her broken relationship with the father of Felice. Should he press his case for a love relationship between them? Should he respect her independence? Should he continue to protect his own self-respecting independence, rejecting his impulse to plea for her company? Who can answer these questions?

The intensity of the woman's rejection of the man's sympathy for her loss of Felice is telling. It suggests that much of what happened stemming from the one-night stand (?) that produced Felice is unresolved within the woman, including her feelings for the man.

We don't know if the woman is the type who could abort a child, but it might be the case that she bore Felice in part due to emotional attachment to her father.

This is a whirlpool of complicated emotions rubbing against each other intra-personally, inter-personally & also, the tectonic plates of emotion rubbing against those of underlying values & beliefs, again both intra & inter personally. Whew!

As per the above, I make my case, through this fictional story, to the effect that human individuals oftentimes are animated morasses of complications of complications.

As you can see from this argument, human individuality isn't simply about singularity, but also about the personal, the inter-personal, the social and even the cosmic.

By social convention, western philosophy is a punching bag for wits, with the public following suit. However, when philosophy is good, and written in the plain language of the common people, everybody listens because, underneath all of the pragmatical posturing, everybody holds interest in the big questions.

These are reasons why it's not absurd to hold ALL humans to highest standards of individuality, seeing that's what they are. How I, the individual, fit into the cosmos swirling around me is a lifelong journey without easy, formulaic answers.

"What is a question?" shows – one cannot say unquestionably – what a question is. — 180 Proof

The above implies What is a question? encompasses a spectrum of possible identities.

Please list some members of this spectrum, especially those members that are non-questions.

Did you read my 4D statement just above your

This is a stupid question! — Agent Smith

statement?

Nothing denotes a something without any of the properties constituting the domain within which that something is embedded. (Re: physical) — 180 Proof

I think maybe this statement contains a whiff of

A question is an expression that consists of
a variable? :eyes: — 180 Proof

as regards nothing being paradoxically contained_not contained within the domain in which nothing is (somehow) embedded sans any of the attributes denoting said embedding.

I think maybe there's a paradox associated with the conception of nothing as being in possession of a specifiable boundary (of some sort) that allows it to be embedded within another boundary.

What do you think the self consists of? — baker

For a strong example of individuality (& its gnarly complications), please click the link below. It connects to a short story on this website by 180 Proof.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/12322/felice-by-180-proof

Coming up with alternatives to mainstream views, philosophizing, questioning, doubting, "being yourself...all this is easy... — baker

Have you encountered mountain ranges of new ideas for good living that aren't pro forma reiterations of proverbs, aphorisms, biblical quotes, folklore, folk wisdom, urban myths, bawdy limericks, slang and the occasional citation from published luminaries? I ask because you say being yourself is easy.

...Developing a perspective on life and a course of action that will actually result in a life well lived: this is not so easy. — baker

Let me modify the above quote.

...Developing a perspective on your own life and pursuing a tailored course of action that closely fits your individuality will not be easy.

The modified quote is what I think.

To amplify, I believe nothing is harder than developing as an individual. For starters, finding oneself is terribly difficult. This is so because, paradoxically, as selves we are almost nothing. Without the daily reenforcement of society, we quickly begin to forget our most basic attributes.

The second part of your statement is good because it recognizes the limitations of individuality while valuing the collective wisdom of cultures and societies.

I distinguish "nothing" from "nothingness" ...
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/707639
... the physical (or quotidian) from the metaphysical (or wholly conceptual). — 180 Proof

So, nothing is existential whereas nothingness is categorical, and thus metaphysics is an empty but not meaningless category.

Wow! I got an information-bearing statement from 180 re: metaphysics.

Confiteur I don't know how to extricate myself from the loop formed by definition & question in re questions.

What is a question? is an impossible question - to ask it, one must know what a question is but it also indicates the questioner doesn't know what a question is. This is the paradox. — Agent Smith

I begin my closing statement by claiming What is a question? is not an impossible question. Difficult, yes. Impossible, no.

Let me start with my first counter-narrative. Re: the claim asking a question necessarily implies knowing question makes me yell: "Wait a minute!" By parallel argument I can claim driving a car necessarily implies knowing cars. Really?

Curiously, I can use my own ignorance as part of this argument. When I started the conversation, I didn't know What is a question?, in parallel with This sentence is false., expresses a paradox. But I nonetheless raised the question didn't I? So, seems to me asking a question can come from the mouth of ignorance re: knowing that What is a question?, in particular, is a paradox. I can scarcely claim to have known the state of being of that question at the time of my asking it.

If a parrot repeats some of my phrases, do we have evidence the parrot knows what it's saying?

Asking a question does not necessarily imply knowing the state of being (nature) of question.

I continue with my best counter-narrative. What is a question? is not an impossible question because...

Premise -- paradox = higher dimensional entity in collapsed state

Henceforth, I will try to examine the vertical relationship between cubic space (3D) & tesseractic space (4D).

The core concept says in 3D space, sequential time inheres & thus one thing occupies one position at a time as two positions by one thing requires movement across a time interval always positive.

In contrast, in 4D space, non-sequential time inheres & thus one thing occupies multiple positions as simultaneous multiple positions by one thing are supported by non-sequential time.

Consider two parallel boxes.

In cubic space, binary logic inheres, thus a zero or a one can be in one box or the other.

In tesseractic space, hyper-logic inheres, thus a zero or a one can simultaneously inhabit both boxes.

In 3D space, paradox expresses the hyper-logic of 4D space in its collapsed state, as the fourth spacial dimension required for expansion of hyper-logic is absent.

Hyper-logic, in its collapsed state, expresses as an undecidable, timeless switching between two "contradictory" positions that cancel.

In its expanded state, hyper-logic expresses as simultaneity of multiple positions in non-sequential time i.e. non-locality. The "contradictory" switching in 3D space becomes non-locality in 4D space.

I don't know if the human brain, in its current state of evolution, can directly experience the non-local simultaneity of multiple positions of entities in the 4D of hyper-space.

At any rate, as you are seeing here, the strangeness of QM can be navigated with some ease of comprehension by shuttling across the vertical relationship between 3D & 4D space.

I close this section with a category title I suggest as a label for examinations like the one above: Boundary Ontology. At the core of this category is study of geometric forms preserved across topological shuttling between 3D & 4D versus geometric forms expanded/collapsed across 3D & 4D spaces.

In the next chapter, I will try to examine some key attributes inhering within the hyper-space of tesseract.

One problem with this lil limrick is that it begins with a false dichotomy. But anyway, both something and nothing exist (e.g. 99.9% of each atom is empty space). :scream: — 180 Proof

Empty space ≠ nothing.

One problem with this lil limrick is that it begins with a false dichotomy. — 180 Proof

If it's a false dichotomy, then nothing, being an existing thing, is something, not nothing. Therefore, empty space, likewise being an existing thing (whose existence you cite), by your own argument, is not nothing.

I choose to attack the challenge to answer this question by looking upon it as raising an issue of perspective.

When someone asks the question, "Why is there not nothing?" I respond by saying, "Because you asked the question."

The instance of a question being asked -- any question, including this one -- presupposes the existence of a something (sentient being or person, I suppose) asking the question.

In the instance of nothingness (including instance and nothingness), neither the question nor the issue could be raised. Speaking labyrinthically, existence/not existence is not an issue for nothingness.

If we assume an existing thing cannot exist outside its own existence -- this sounds to me like an absolute boundary -- then existence/not existence only has existence & meaning in the instance of existence.

All of this adds up to say, "No existing thing can explore (even the possibility) of non-existence.

Most of most people's time is consumed in more fruitful activities. — baker

Both of course and of convention, you're right. How many, for example, spend quality time pondering what it means, logically speaking, to ask a question? "Oh, gee, darling. You're such a peach you are. Might I have your name?" Trying to examine this, the Merlins of philosophy advise us, leads to a dead end word game of circular reasoning. Paradox. Questioning questioning is impossible, received wisdom assures us. The circle cannot be broken.

What level-headed bloke pursues this path when, instead, he could be sipping a cold beer and making time at the local bar? What right-thinking acer fancies word puzzles over collecting a few bucks at the race track? Even the puttering gardener who raises a few championship blooms has a leg up on would-be pundits entangled in thought puzzles.

No astute person can ignore the curse extending from Socrates to Nietzsche and, presumably, beyond.

I won't quibble with the obvious. The hardest thing for us to do, albeit the most natural thing for us to do, is be ourselves. Personal integrity - Darn it! - entails thinking your own thoughts and pursuing them into action as far as time and circumstances allow. But that's adventure. Well! Who's up for that? I ask, why strike out on personal adventure when, living in civil society, the only popular wisdom is that of the conventional variety?

How do you perceive the metaphysical?
— ucarr
Categorically. — 180 Proof

If you can elaborate, please do so.

What is the metaphysical status of a question?
— ucarr
This question still doesn't make sense to me after two thread pages. — 180 Proof

Have any thoughts about the geometry inhering within a 4-space environment?

How do you perceive the metaphysical?

Metaphysical, as I'm using it here = essential, invariant identity.

If you know what you're inquiring about, inquiry is unnecessary. — Agent Smith

If you don't know what you're inquiring about, inquiry is impossible. — Agent Smith

As you again attack with Occam's Razor, I'll make bold & declare that logic_math_science operate meticulously, expansively & successfully between the above two razor's edges.

A quick review of humanity's empirical experience shows that inquiry starts with partial information about what's to be discovered. This is clearly demonstrated in my example. The abundance of partial information experimentation, the axiomatic starting point for logic_math_science discoveries, being something common you fail to register here, suggests you fundamentally misunderstand inquiry.

Ergo,

Inquiry is either unnecessary or impossible. — Agent Smith

The above razor cut reads dramatically on paper, however, within the empirical world, it excludes only an extremely acute angle: cases at the polar extremes. These amount to nothing more than straw man arguments that misrepresent real inquiry_discovery.

Premise --

A question, if it's pertinent to the answer it seeks, shares a link with said answer that is a variant of the transitive property.

Question is a platform that makes known/unknown work together to isolate an equivalence (identity).


Let’s look at an example that articulates the details of my premise.

3+x=5

3 & 5 = known (underlined)

x = unknown (no underline)

Question - What do 3 & 5 have in common?

Answer – 3

Question, shuttling sequentially, discovers what 3 & 5 have in common, 3, thus linking them.

Question – What do 3 & 5 have not in common?

Answer – 2

We can say that these two questions, taken together, demonstrate known & unknown, each expressing one in terms of the other.

After 3 & 5 each express in terms of the other, both as known & unknown, x, the unknown, becomes isolated, thus x = 2.

Once the common ground between 3 & 5 i.e. 3 is established (transitive property) the disjunction separating 3 & 5 , the separator, 2, becomes isolated.

Now, x = unknown, becomes 2 = known.

So, 3 + 2 = 5

All of the terms are now known & equation of identity, linking two different expressions of one position on the number line, gets expressed.

We see here that Question, in its essence, functions as the messenger RNA, or shuttle diplomat, establishing, via the transitive property, the common ground linking both sides of the equation, thus isolating the unknown, who now, become known, enables the equation to express an identity across known values.

:up: :grin:

We can certainly do so, if we choose to, but I think we should recognize that in that case we don't consider how questions are used in our ordinary discourse. It would be like trying to understand or define language without considering irony, sarcasm, exaggeration, nuance, etc. — Ciceronianus

I have no intention to ignore, ultimately, the many applications of question in context, with multiple grammatical_syntactical variations etc. Lawyers, rhetorical actors, couldn't thrive (or even function) in the courtroom without these accoutrements, nor could dramatic actors upon the stage.

For explanation, let me say that here I'm trying to deconstruct the complex & great edifice of English in order to examine closely its foundation & frame through the lens of epistemology's greatest messenger, Lord Question.

King Language & Lord Question have a diplomatic relationship of exquisite protocols outfitted with lavish filigree (to which you are wed).

What are some essential features & functions of the platform (question) that transfers information intra-linguistically? (You provide a telling example of the messenger role of Lord Question by stressing how he conveys meaning (including equivalence) even when stripped clean of his diplomatic credentials.)

The upshot is just what I said at the beginning; What's the metaphysical status of a question?

I like my focus here because you, and many others, are completely focused on the application of question, whereas I wish to focus on the innate form & behavior of question.

↪ucarr You asked for me "reconfigure" my previous expression of "a question" into a "paradox" – thus, the question-mark. Paradoxical, no? — 180 Proof

So, you think question-of-question is, metaphysically speaking, paradoxical.

1. What is gravity? (interrogative) — Agent Smith

equation template v1, where to be ⇒ =

2. Define gravity. (command) — Agent Smith

implied equation

3. Gravity is a _________ (fill in the blank) — Agent Smith

equation template v2

4. Gravity is (MCQ)
a. A type of apple
b. Einstein's cat
c. A force
d. All of the above
e. None of the above — Agent Smith

conjunctive proposition ⇒ equation, with variables X₁, X₂, X₃, X₄, X₅

What have the five above instances in common? They juxtapose the known & the unknown within a field wherein the two states cohere as an interactive couplet.

From here I see that question is a platform that makes known/unknown work together to isolate an equivalence (identity).

Generically, a question is an expression that consists of a variable. — 180 Proof

A question is an expression that consists of
a variable? :eyes: — 180 Proof

I'm puzzled by your skepticism toward a statement you originally quoted as a general description of question.

I think it's a good definition. It makes clear how question is rooted in a curious juxtaposition of the known & the unknown.

Ignorance is the parent of knowledge
Knowledge is the parent of ignorance

Lord Question, I suspect, plays a key role in the shuttle diplomacy between knowledge & ignorance.

I'm not sure whether you're saying...that rhetorical questions are, or are not, questions for your purposes... — Ciceronianus

I'm trying to get sharp focus on whether question plays a principal role in information transfer -- rather like Messenger RNA. If so, might this be an underlying principle & core function of question? Moreover, as we have it from one of our great pillars,

“…we are obliged to inquire how it is possible for there
to be no philosophy; and in inquiring we philosophize, for inquiry is
the cause of Philosophy.”
-Aristotle

Through the lens of this quote, we can surmise such a core function being the lynchpin of philosophy as a whole. Let us, then, recede context, with all of its hubristic self-importance, including sub-textual intentions, into the background for the moment.

...unless you maintain that purpose has nothing to do with whether or not there is a question--because there is only one true question or form of question... — Ciceronianus

The word denotes something. If someone maintains this denotation is completely plastic within the ecosystem of context, then question has no essential function & meaning. I doubt Aristotle would sanction such a conclusion, as it posits the philosophical center of gravity amidst the swirling currents of atmospheric word play. Not a suitable instrument for examining the good life.

Nor am I sure whether you're addressing grammar, or metaphysics, or if they're one and the same. — Ciceronianus

I believe grammar & syntax are probative material for mounting a metaphysical premise with supporting argument but, no, I don't think they're equivalent to metaphysics. The relationship is more like grammar & syntax as the foot soldiers, preparing the battlefield for a great cataclysm wherein King meets King in contest.

then a categorical examination of the grammar of question is possible
— ucarr

So, it's grammar we're concerned with? — Ciceronianus

Grammar & syntax are, at present, town criers who can best tell us important things we'd like to know about our newly burnished noble, Lord Question.

A question, if it's pertinent to the answer it seeks, shares a link with said answer that is a variant of the transitive property.

I think I want to put this forward as the premise of my conversation here.

What you say is true. On the other hand, can you cite legions of family, friends and acquaintances who frequent this website, ready to spout alternatives to the cultural conventions that guide our everyday lives?

Reinventing the wheel works up a sweat!

What is the metaphysical status of a question?
— ucarr

Which question is that? — Ciceronianus

Casual answer - any question
— ucarr

Rhetorical questions? — Ciceronianus

↪Ciceronianus

Yes. — ucarr

If that's the case, then questions which aren't questions are questions. — Ciceronianus

The grammar that syntaxes question denotes form & function that operates independent of the sub-textual intentions of the speaker/writer.

Placing a filter over the grammar of question, such that we read it as a formal question that, in actuality, intends to make a statement, i.e. a rhetorical question, is a contextual maneuver that converts query into statement by social agreement. If this socially constructed reading of question as statement supports paradoxical word play, the grammarian of question can read it as would-be paradoxical piffle.

...I question whether all questions are alike, and think they vary in purpose and according to context. — Ciceronianus

If question, as signifier, possesses coherence, then a categorical examination of the grammar of question is possible & issues of speaker/writer intentions, sub-text & context are non-fatal to it.

As a test of this claim, I ask you to parse the following definition of question so as to configure it as a definition that supports characterization of same as paradox.

What is a question?
Generically, a question is an expression that consists of a variable. — 180 Proof

I think the logic supporting the general grammar of question, as defined above is
What Xa? ⇒ Xb, if Xa & Xb = Xab

Yes.

What is the metaphysical status of a question? — ucarr

Which question is that? — Ciceronianus

Casual answer - any question
Formal answer - Socratic Method > Elenchus

:grin: Thank-you!

A question is the difference between two or more simultaneously occurring mental states! — karl stone

Since I don't know if this refers to the volition choosing a single focus, or the differential in vertical stacking of prioritized activities i.e. multi-tasking, I need an elaboration.

I guess the paradox I mentioned in my previous posts can be "resolved" by changing the question (what is a question?) into a command (define "question"). It's kinda a cheat code to avoid/escape what is a mind-boggling loop. — Agent Smith

I believe, as you suggest, the differentiation of What is a question? and Define question is false. When I define something, I answer the question, What is it? Thus What is a question? equals Define question.

That you acknowledge existence of a resolution of the paradox shows you believe examination of question in general is possible.

I don't, however, rush to conclude your paradox is self-enclosed word play.

Premises

Undecidable ≠ meaningless

Ambiguous ≠ unintellibible

Generically, a question is an expression that consists of a variable. — 180 Proof

Can you reconfigure this statement as a paradox?

I, questioner = X, and I, questioner ≠ X — ucarr

This "question" makes no sense. — 180 Proof

Firstly, the statement normally appears to be nonsense, a point Agent Smith emphasizes. So, of course, in my translation of his paradox into my own paraphrase, the apparent nonsense is preserved. I express the paraphrase in route to examining whether Agent Smith's point is true.

In trying to write with the economy of symbolic logic, I find no symbol denoting examines, which is how I wish my statement quoted above to be read. Thus

I, questioner examine X, and I, questioner not examine X.

Instead of examine as the verb, is superset (in the sense of "encompass") better?

I, questioner ⊃ X, and I, questioner ⊅ X.

What is a question? is an impossible question - to ask it, one must know what a question is but it also indicates the questioner doesn't know what a question is. This is the paradox. — Agent Smith

Can we generalize the above thus, What is an X?

Must we parse it likewise? To ask it, one must know what an X is, but it also indicates the questioner doesn't know what an X is.

I, questioner = X, and I, questioner ≠ X

(These links are questions, no?) — 180 Proof

Serious questions. In light of QM, does the cognitive non-locality of word games signify something empirical?

You can't define "question" without knowing what a question is but you can't know what a question is without defining "question". — Agent Smith

The question of question, as it expresses in your language above, appears as paradox. With this claim I'm asserting that question of question, a two-tiered construction, defines as a curious singleton that occupies two places at once.

In our everyday experience of discrete singletons, paradox is seeming anomaly that science, with its grounding in cause_effect continuity & its emergent property, inference, works around via Zermelo-Fraenkel axiomatic set theory.

Take note that avoidable paradox & unavoidable paradox are two very different situations.

There is a conundrum, of ancient vintage, that examines the endless divisibility of the number line WRT walking about in the real world. If space is endlessly divisible, thus suggesting an endless journey across any interval of space, no matter how small, then how does a walking person ever get anywhere?

The conundrum, obviously, is not about the impossibility of walking over distance. It's about the difficulty of explaining foot travel in light of the observation about the number line.

In your Chicken-and-Egg Problem, you address defining/knowing a question.

You don't address asking a question. Just as I can walk progressively through space, infinite number line notwithstanding, I can think progressively through question of question, circularity of reasoning notwithstanding.

Although, at present, I can't explain the permeability of your circular reasoning conundrum, nonetheless I can observe said permeability, and thus proceed to examine fruitfully the role of question of question within logic.

And you didn't answer my question:

Who is placing a gun to the head of the masses, threatening to pull the trigger if they refuse to get doped on sex, drugs & religion, game shows, state lotteries & promotional giveaways? — Baker

Powerful, shaping influences upon our lives are not always blatant.

The short answer to your question is propaganda.

My reasoning proceeds from the premise that all professional governments maintain an aggressive propaganda machine. Propaganda + (the science of) polling_statistics combine to form the bedrock of technique for winning the hearts & minds of the people.

Ingenious propaganda closely interweaves with culture to make a seamless combination so seemingly natural as to prevent native members from even questioning the legitimacy -- both existential & moral -- of the state-sanctioned, core values of the culture. The minority of citizens who actively oppose core values are then easily shunned as radicals, malcontents, degenerates etc.

For example, consider a child born into a small village, geographically isolated. Everyone in the village professes to be a Christian. From day one, the child is casually indoctrinated with Christian ideology. They get it from their parents & extended family, from the school teacher, policeman, fireman, merchant and minister. In this situation, we have religious ideology shaking hands with the culture so tightly as to make the two indistinguishable & therefore inseparable.

But they are separate. Religion is spiritual_moral. Culture is social_political. When all of these potent forces are combined into a tight interweave, how likely is it that a child, nurtured up therein, will turn away from the family & society that fed, clothed, sheltered, educated, inspired & protected them?

Not very likely.

And you didn't answer my question:

Who is placing a gun to the head of the masses, threatening to pull the trigger... — Baker

Your metaphor above is taken from a crime drama. In real life, the gun placed to the head (and within the head) of the average citizen is ingenious propaganda, not a firearm.

What is the counter to ingenious propaganda? A firearm? No. The counter is critical thinking skills.

Critical thinking is taught in the public skills. However, when students are encouraged to apply such skills to core cultural values, their teachers, being radicals, soon face termination.*

*For an example, examine numerous articles pertaining to CRT.

One of the important responsibilities of philosophy is cultivation of a critical thinking mindset that plays no favorites.