Comments

  • How May the Idea and Nature of 'Despair' be Understood Philosophically?
    I wonder to what extent despair is a temperament or a philosophical perspective? Also, to what extent is it a chosen viewpoint or one arrived at through outer experience of suffering?Jack Cummins

    So, I am asking how do you see the idea of despair, and hope, as philosophical concepts in making sense of the navigation of life possibilities? How may ideas of despair be juggled effectively, to go beyond the deadend of pessimism and thinking? To what extent is nihilism a 'realistic' philosophy or a flawed one?Jack Cummins

    Despair is alive and well in philosophy.

    I found out about Lev Shestov. This is his take on despair:

    People who read much must always keep it in mind that life is one thing, literature another. Not that authors invariably lie. I declare that there are writers who rarely and most reluctantly lie. But one must know how to read, and that isn't easy. Out of a hundred bookreaders ninety-nine have no idea what they are reading about. It is a common belief, for example, that any writer who sings of suffering must be ready at all times to open his arms to the weary and heavy-laden.

    This is what his readers feel when they read his books. Then when they approach him with their woes, and find that he runs away without looking back at them, they are filled with indignation and talk of the discrepancy between word and deed. Whereas the fact is, the singer has more than enough woes of his own, and he sings them because he can't get rid of them. L’uccello canta nella gabbia, non di gioia ma di rabbia, says the Italian proverb: "The bird sings in the cage, not from joy but from rage." It is impossible to love sufferers, particularly hopeless sufferers, and whoever says otherwise is a deliberate liar. "Come unto Me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

    But you remember what the Jews said about Him: "He speaks as one having authority!" And if Jesus had been unable, or had not possessed the right, to answer this skeptical taunt, He would have had to renounce His words. We common mortals have neither divine powers nor divine rights, we can only love our neighbours whilst they still have hope, and any pretence of going beyond this is empty swagger. Ask him who sings of suffering for nothing but his songs. Rather think of alleviating his burden than of requiring alleviation from him. Surely not—for ever should we ask any poet to sob and look upon tears. I will end with another Italian saying: Non è un si triste cane che non meni la coda... "No dog so wretched that doesn't wag his tail sometimes.”

    ― Lev Shestov, All Things Are Possible and Penultimates Words and Other Essays

    I do not have a better passage to provide here as I don't own a book he'd written.
  • The automobile is an unintended evil
    It's an economic fight -- it would be hard to get rid of private vehicles in favor of public transport. But humans could get used to not having a garage and a vehicle. I know I can and I know people who would favor not having cars anymore.
  • The automobile is an unintended evil
    Ah got it. Yes, loans for all. Cars for all. Shit for all.schopenhauer1
    There were societies where loans are unheard of, let alone mortgage loans. Guess what? They built their own homes and did not buy a vehicle and used the public transportation instead. Look up Asian countries in the long ago past.
  • The automobile is an unintended evil
    The production of automobiles was a result of capitalism. How to sell those cars if not enough people are wealthy enough to buy all the cars produced. Loans. Who are the people behind the production of vehicles and the invention of loans? The owners of the means of production.
  • The automobile is an unintended evil
    For sure it would have been a totally different world without the mass produced automobiles.

    Imagine a world where automobiles were rare, and mainly used in rural areas that were extremely remote or for emergency purposes only.schopenhauer1
    Not rare. That isn't the word you want. I believe you mean government-approved uses.
    In any case, you can't solve the problem of automobiles without first addressing the allocation of resources where no one gets insanely wealthy while others work for minimum wage.
  • All that matters in society is appearance
    I asked, "And how do you distinguish between who a person is and who you think said person is?"
    Replying, "Okay, seriously, by spending time with them" is below one would expect at a philosophy forum.
    baker
    :grin: I was lazy to elaborate. I'm sorry.

    Judging from what I experienced, there are things they say that give away how they feel about certain issues.

    "My wife is a Karen." I heard this uttered by a man. Though I cannot divulge what led to his statement, what he was revealing about himself is that he is an easy man to deal with and expect no issues with him. He wouldn't cause any drama.
  • All that matters in society is appearance
    This is what I mean, and to me, these things are obvious.
    People's bodily appearance is like the picture of Dorian Gray: it depicts all their sins and passions.
    baker
    To a certain point, yes.

    This is a philosophy forum. Presumably, you have a systematic methodology for distinguishing between who a person is and who you think said person is.baker
    I was actually speaking of people I actually do meet in person and spend time with.
    The philosophy forum is probably very limited in providing insight to a person's true personality.
  • All that matters in society is appearance
    But there are outward clues as to who they are if you look closely.

    "Closely"? I think it's quite obvious.
    baker
    Are you really just going to literal-ass this?

    Obviously, the outward appearance is "obvious". When I said closely, I meant you would need to ignore the superficial curtsies and social routine so you could see a couple of measures -- integrity, maturity, and respect, for example.

    How do you tell which is which?

    And how do you distinguish between who a person is and who you think said person is?
    baker
    By fucking them. Okay, seriously, by spending time with them.
  • All that matters in society is appearance
    I would also add that I never know who a person really is.Tom Storm
    This I agree :100:
  • All that matters in society is appearance
    What do you mean by "appearance"? And what by "who they are"?baker
    Hi Baker, appearance is what we see when we meet people or see them in pictures. Who they are is their core personality. However, what Tom said about almost no correlation between appearance and who they are -- I disagree slightly. I work with all kinds of people, and so does Tom, I believe. But there are outward clues as to who they are if you look closely.

    @Tom Storm, you can disagree with what I said above. I also do not have a scientific backing for what I said.
  • Spontaneous Creation Problems
    We can ask ourselves: Does the gravitational singularity coexist with the current state of the universe? Should we differentiate them as two different moments? You could say: "In the gravitational singularity there is no before or after." Well, then there is an inadequacy of that space-time scheme that we use to represent the difference between one state of the universe and another state.JuanZu
    This is your opinion. If you believe there are deficiencies in the conception of what existed prior to the big bang, or even in the blackhole, this is beyond the task of philosophy.
  • Spontaneous Creation Problems
    So, is philosophy very much invested in physics? Should it be? Is philosophy equipped, in general, to circumvent details and pull quantum tricks out of its big hat?jgill
    Physics is invested in philosophy. :cool:
  • Spontaneous Creation Problems
    I wouldn't say Newtonian. I conceive spatiality and temporality as part of the thing to the extent that it is always in relationship. However, when talking about the order of coexistence and order of succession I am talking about something that all science implies when using the notions of space and time.JuanZu
    And I'm saying that you can't. Gravitational singularity does not have spacetime.
  • Spontaneous Creation Problems
    This is strange territory where philosophy can't seem to abstain trespassing.jgill
    Please don't say this. Physics is very much invested in causality -- which is the prize of metaphysics.
  • Spontaneous Creation Problems
    If the universe is actually eternal, that solves the problem.Count Timothy von Icarus
    No, the universe is not eternal. The singularity, however, is infinite.

    Basically, if inherit fluctuations in the singularity could produce the universe 14 billion years ago, how did the singularity not produce any such fluctuations for an infinite amount of time before these fluctuations finally did occur? My understanding is that this is the problem that drives the appeal of cyclical universes or Black Hole Cosmology.Count Timothy von Icarus
    I am lost here. We could only describe quantum fluctuations outside of the singularity, I believe. That is, we can only describe the quantum fluctuations within the universe.

    Of course, we could appeal to the status of time in singularities, but we have reason to think our understanding of singularities is incomplete because of Hawking radiation, conservation laws, the prediction that black holes will decay and have an end, etc.Count Timothy von Icarus
    No, there's no time in singularities. Let's try not to confuse the Newtonian causality with the infinity.

    But as I said in my answer, although things come into existence constantly, what would be unusual is for them to come from nothing. Since generally there is a causality that precedes and explains them, kinda. The important thing is that "coming into existence" presupposes the order of coexistence and the order of succession. From this it follows that the universe did not come out of nothing: It could have been there forever.JuanZu
    You're still stuck in the Newtonian causality. While I agree with you, in fact I said this in my previous post that there was always something, and that the universe did not come from nothing, your train of thought is still the regularity of the laws of the universe. We are totally not on the same page.
  • Spontaneous Creation Problems
    I know it's hard to wrap our heads around the idea that there was always "something" and that something was a single point. There was never a time when there was nothing. There was always something.
  • Spontaneous Creation Problems
    Yes, that's the premise I was accepting starting out. Things can begin to exist for no reason at all, no Principle of Sufficient Reason in effect.

    I'm not really sure if you're trying to rebut my solution or the problem itself? If a singularity can start to exist, i.e., it did not always exist, why can't others? Why does one beginning to exist preclude others?
    Count Timothy von Icarus
    No. Singularity as described is the infinite density - this is what was. (matter cannot be created nor destroyed). So, that said:

    Actually we do see many new things appear: new stars, new human beings, new social problems, new diseases, new hopes, new philosophies, new theories, new films, new technologies, etc. What is not common is that something new arises out of nothing and for no reason.JuanZu
    This is totally not what we're talking about here. The "new" is missed here.

    Stars, for example, as part of the galaxy is not "new" -- stars are not born -- they form out of gas and dust. So, when they undergo change in properties, they age and collapse.

    What's new and had existed infinitely was the singular point that has infinitesimal volume. Then big bang happened.
  • Spontaneous Creation Problems
    Here is the solution that occured to me, and it might not be very good. But let's say that all sorts of things do start to exist, at random. Why should we expect that different sorts of things that start existing would be able to interact with one another? Maybe stuff is popping into being all the time and it just makes no difference to us.Count Timothy von Icarus
    This is an incorrect expectation. There was just a single point that was very very hot before the Big Bang. This singularity (prior to the Big Bang) will never occur again until, maybe, this universe dies in what they call the Big Freeze, which is like the death valley. There is no explanation as to the cause responsible for the singularity. "How it forms" is not a cause.
  • Deconstructing our intuitions of consciousness
    In other words, our conscious experience correlates with the notion of individual, since it is present almost all the time, but I don’t see any proof of causality, since one can happen without the other.Skalidris
    Consciousness is not causality.
    Perception is causality.
  • Bannings
    And of course, there's the hypocritical anti-philosophy types who don't wish to be doing philosophy, and even claim not to be doing philosophy, while not having the will power to prevent themselves from doing philosophy... and so they go, into the production of depraved philosophy.Metaphysician Undercover

    :100: :grin:
  • Bannings

    Yes, I agree. The lounge should be the proper place for that if it's really unavoidable that that thread must be made. This is a philosophy forum.
    (In the past, I opened a few threads the nature of which should be suspect as to their proper places. If the moderators moved them to the lounge, that's where they should be).
  • ChatGPT obsoleting Encyclopaedia and Textbooks?
    In case of the online information such as from WiKi or ChatGPT, the editors, publishers, scholars ..etc source information can be unknown or vague. And also the quality and accuracy of the information could be a bit suspicious too.

    I prefer relying on the information from the traditional printed books and articles for the clearer information of the source, editors, writers and publishers.
    Corvus
    It's more than a preference, but yes, I voted that the printed books are very relevant. There are legal properties attached to the physical copies of a book -- it is a tangible property which is regulated by the distribution, copyrights, printing, plagiarism laws. Out-of-print books could be re-printed. The years (20xx) and number of copies printed become its valuable properties.
  • ChatGPT obsoleting Encyclopaedia and Textbooks?
    With the advent of A.I. and the use of ChatGPT getting popular, I wonder if all the Encyclopaedia and Textbooks become obsolete. Would it be the case, or the textbooks and Encyclopaedia will still be in demand?Corvus

    I did not vote. When you say with the "advent of AI and the use of ChatGPT" --are you saying we are also doing away with the editors, publishers, scholars, and reviews of the references and citations? Because those were what it took to create those books.

    The scholars are researchers who are the specialists of a given subject matter.

    So, I don't understand the question. And are you also including in your question the copyrights? Is authorship also obsolete?
  • About definitions and the use of dictionaries in Philosophy
    Philosophy has its own lexicon that's different from politics, for example. — L'éléphant

    Do you refer to a particular lexicon, like a specialized dictionary or encyclopedia --e.g. Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, etc.-- or a personal vocabulary, based on their own personal meanings of terms?
    If it's the first case, what Philosophy lexicon are you using?
    Alkis Piskas
    Yes, those dictionaries. But also, from the writings of the philosophers themselves, which are not dictionaries themselves. Their books are filled with definitions/meanings.
  • About definitions and the use of dictionaries in Philosophy
    2) How can they expect to communicate effectively with others if they don't know the standard, common, agreed upon definitions/meanings of terms (with all their variations depending on context ) or if they have their own, personal, different definitions/meanings according to their own views and reality?
    One can always of course describe one's own definition/meaning of a term --nothing bad about it-- but at least they should make that clear if that definition/meaning departs from the standard, common, agreed upon definition and meaning. Isn't that right?
    Alkis Piskas

    That being said, anyone who gives you flak for daring to use a dictionary should be red flagged in your mind. Anyone who resists clear definitions is likely a charlatan who will continue to twist and retwist the meaning any time you think you get a handle on it and it points to a contradiction. Discussing with people like this can be a waste of time, so be careful.Philosophim

    These explanations are why we have something called a lexicon. In any given body of knowledge, population, community, and language in general, there is the lexicon that we abide by, naturally and automatically.

    Philosophy has its own lexicon that's different from politics, for example. When the political news refer to the "world", they mean the countries that make up the human population.

    Just because this is a public forum that welcomes everyone, it doesn't mean we can just join and start a conversation using an entirely new lexicon that is personalized to our own desires. We can challenge everything you say that's outside the lexicon of philosophy (unless of course, you want to talk about films, or music, or fiction, or any popular reads).

    That said, a dictionary is created by the lexicographers, so using it in the philosophical discussion is a reasonable means.
  • There is No Such Thing as Freedom
    One cannot be both his own slave and his own master.NOS4A2
    Good point. We are what our mind is -- which includes conscience and ego. So, we really can't say we are imprisoned by our own mind. That is our essence. The lions in the wilderness are said to be free. They're not trapped in their lionness.

    The only way we can assert freedom in this sense is to use the rational deliberation of our actions. The likes of Aristotle, Kant, and Mill argue for this kind of freedom. Even if one is physically imprisoned in a cell or shackled by chains, they can still think rationally.

    Consider insults, for example. Insults are effective at causing pain to some but not to others. Some people couldn't care less about what was said about them. They are free of the pain caused by the words directed at them.

    And this is really the gist or the point of talking about lack of freedom. If we have no freedom, for example, how does that affect us negatively? Are we locked up in a cell unable to do what we wish or need to do? Then we don't have freedom.

    Oh, we're not locked up and chained? Then we are talking about a different kind of freedom or the lack thereof.
  • What is the way to deal with inequalities?
    The acceptance and appreciation of individuality.Vera Mont
    This will work if we stop listening to the publicity and marketing.
  • The objectively best chocolate bars
    I am not a sweets eater in general. I would get sick and vomit if I eat a lot of chocolates or cakes or other sweet stuff. My limit is the size of a bite size chocolate bar.
    That said, the pictures here look delicious. And also, of course, chocolates have that ingredient flavanol that is good for health.

    Chocolates also come in pink:

    PKLDTWJMNJM77DRDW4XQQHNHUI.jpg?auto=webp
  • The Philosophy of 'Risk': How is it Used and, How is it Abused?
    So find laws where the punishment is X fine without jail time and so long as you're poised to make a greater reward than the fine, break the law, pay the fine, reap the profits.Vaskane
    :smile:
  • Are some languages better than others?
    Are you just identifying your subjective opinion, or are you saying something objective?

    As in, you think you better express yourself with painting than sculpture, or are you saying that sculpture is the truly best way to express certain perspectives?

    Seems the former would be the only sustainable claim.
    Hanover
    Dude, to say something is "better" is a subjective opinion.
    So, I don't understand what the confusion is about.
  • Are some languages better than others?
    For me it is clear that languages are different and that if there is a difference then one is to be better than another.I like sushi
    Yes, I'd say one is better than another, to me (being a multilingual). One is good for daily spoken language, but not for writing a powerful declamation. Another is writing comedy -- I would have to switch the style or even the type of comedy with one language, and use another style and topic if using another language.

    (I shouldn't say "better" -- it is politically and culturally unacceptable to say this).
  • A Digital Physics Argument for the existence of God
    Firstly, it should be obvious that we can read, understand and interpret bits. Second, our perception is literally composed of what a bit is - a binary distinction. You either see an object or your don't. You either distinguish something from another, or you don't. Our perception is completely dependent on binary distinctions.Hallucinogen
    Clearly you do not understand what you're talking about.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    IMO, that's instrumental reasoning (re: things, i.e. means-to-ends) and not moral reasoning (re: persons, i.e. ends-in-themselves)180 Proof
    In Nicomachean, the "means to an end" is part of moral reasoning. But Aristotle was focusing on the means, because the end has already been decided, so the one thing left to decide on is the means to achieve it. Note that he didn't believe in 'whatever it takes' to get there.
  • A Digital Physics Argument for the existence of God
    Pictures can be represented in bits and bits can be processed to produce a picture. So I don't recognise the mutual exclusivity that serves as the basis of your reply.Hallucinogen
    Our mind does not read bits. We use perception to view the world. In pictures -- which means a complete picture.

    They both use information processing. Saying that one of them "reads" some substrate that isn't information isn't going to be defensible.Hallucinogen
    Information processing is perception in humans. Computers do not perceive. There is no vantage point with computers.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    So, there’s a certain moral perfection to a society where no-one goes astray, where there is no crime, people cooperate fully etc., but the emptiness of this social morality is highlighted by the cost necessary to achieve it.Baden
    Okay, good exegesis!

    @Bob Ross, Nicomachean does not condone moral perfection at the expense of the happiness of others.
  • A Digital Physics Argument for the existence of God
    I'm confused why you mention this - computers do "use" bits, and our minds do understand the world in pictures. This is an example of why my points are rushed and undefined?Hallucinogen

    No, I'm the one confused with the above comment. I pointed that the computer does not read the way our mind reads. Yet you said this:

    3. Quantum cognition and decision theory have shown that information processing in a mind exhibits quantum principles known to underlie the emergence of physical space.
    4. From (2) and (3), the information processing from which physical space is emergent is scientifically indistinguishable from the information processing that occurs in a mind.
    Hallucinogen
    Check your premises #1 and #2. You are arguing that the mind reads like how a computer does.
    This is false.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    I don't quite follow: doesn't Aristotle believe that the good is objective?Bob Ross
    Here is Book II:

    Since then the object of the present treatise is not mere speculation, as it is of some others (for we are enquiring not merely that we may know what virtue is but that we may become virtuous, else it would have been useless), we must consider as to the particular actions how we are to do them, because, as we have just said, the quality of the habits that shall be formed depends on these.

    Now, that we are to act in accordance with Right Reason is a general maxim, and may for the present be taken for granted: we will speak of it hereafter, and say both what Right Reason is, and what are its relations to the other virtues.[4]

    But let this point be first thoroughly understood between us, that all which can be said on moral action must be said in outline, as it were, and not exactly: for as we remarked at the commencement, such reasoning only must be required as the nature of the subject-matter admits of, and matters of moral action and expediency have no fixedness any more than matters of health. And if the subject in its general maxims is such, still less in its application to particular cases is exactness attainable:[5] because these fall not under any art or system of rules, but it must be left in each instance to the individual agents to look to the exigencies of the particular case, as it is in the art of healing, or that of navigating a ship. Still, though the present subject is confessedly such, we must try and do what we can for it.
    He is not arguing for a universal, objective right reason.
  • A Digital Physics Argument for the existence of God
    4. From (2) and (3), the information processing from which physical space is emergent is scientifically indistinguishable from the information processing that occurs in a mind.Hallucinogen
    Incorrect. All your premises are rushed, and without definitions. For example, if computers use bits, our mind reads the world as pictures.

    #6 is fallacious.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    What normative ethical theory do you subscribe to? A form of deontology, perhaps virtue ethics?Bob Ross
    Yes. Nicomachean ethics. Virtue ethics. Because we don't waste our time debating about its being objective or its being relative.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    Can we morally justify sacrificing people for the greater good, especially if it is a huge sacrifice (like getting tortured constantly)?Bob Ross
    No we cannot. And the reason for this is, all of us do not have the moral entitlement to live. None!

    I find it amusing that with the hundreds and thousands of posts here at TPF, we're still not getting the point of ethics and morality. Entitlement is not the same as being treated as a moral agent. If you live in a civilized society, you have the right to be treated ethically, within reason. But to intentionally break a moral principle, so others could continue to live is unethical. If you have the money to buy the body organs, enticing the financially desperate and the greedy people to give up their lives so you could preserve your health, you're immoral and a criminal.