I keep hammering on about moral principles, and free speech absolutism is one. Don't make any justifications of abuses of that principle aligned with your 'tribe' or you open yourself up to accusations of hypocrisy. The spike in firings was political, even if in some individual cases it may have been justified.
It's a conservative talking point. You may believe it sincerely, you might be right substantively, but that's the danger of binary tribalism. I assume good faith, but if I believe you are compelled to 'pick a side', that taints my impression of your integrity. — Jeremy Murray
You misunderstand me. It is principled, and I seek actions consistent with that principle. My principle is in response to the infringement of free speech (and free assembly and association)
by the government, through legislation and force. That’s what I find is an important issue. Protecting against the government is what allows us the freedom to fight out the rest of the issues for ourselves, as we are here. Freedom from the government is the whole ballgame to me.
You’ve said, not in so many words, “hypocrisy” as I am “hammering on about” “justifications of abuses” and tainting my own integrity.
So please, let me back up.
Jimmy Kimmel says, for example, “Kirk was killed by the right wing.” That’s an opinion. That is an example of “speech.”
The FCC hears that, and concludes Kimmel’s opinion is false and/or dangerous.
The FCC can shut down broadcasts, and it threatens ABC/Disney.
So, between ABC/Disney and the government, there is a conflict, over an opinion.
What should we allow the government to do about it?
Nothing.
Because the government shall make no law abridging speech….
So what Brendan Carr (FCC chair) did to ABC/Disney was an attack on free speech. It was akin to government making a law and seeking to enforce a shut down of what ABC was broadcasting.
Plain and simple. That was dangerous government overreach.
So what should we do, or, how should we rebuke Brendan Carr at the FCC?
I’m satisfied there was enough public outcry and rebuke from the legislature (and lack of support from his own staff) that there has at least been a lesson learned at the FCC. Carr’s bullshit didn’t get past anyone. If anything, Carr made such a stupid mistake the FCC’s speech has been chilled. The government will always have to be watched from all angles. As it was watched by our legislators here. And Kimmel is back on the air fairly quickly.
So the First amendment controls, and Carr was in violation. I would certainly hear opinions that maybe the FCC chair should be fired, for knowingly or negligently over-reaching, or for incompetence in not knowing he was over-reaching. Because the First Amendment principles are that important to freedom.
And someone can reasonably fear that this FCC move was some unprecedented power grab to institute fascism if they were so inclined, but I just don’t. It was/is a big deal, but so far it looks to be playing out towards justice. As I said, we always have to watch the FCC and Kimmel is back on the air.
Is anything truly hypocritical so far? Make your case there is more to it and that this isn’t consistent. But even if so, why are you assuming I might behave hypocritically of I was presented with more relevant facts?
Let me back up again.
So again, Kimmel says, for example “Kirk was killed by the right wing”.
His boss hears that opinion and doesn’t agree or hates it.
So we have a conflict of opinions in the private sector now between Kimmel and his boss, ANC/Disney.
First of all, a conflict of opinions in the private sector is called….speech. It’s called a debate. It’s called this TPF thread. That is exactly what we are fighting so hard to protect the government from abusing by the First Amendment. We need to keep that in mind. Free speech lives among people who also happen to be employees, bosses, studio audiences, other companies, government officials (although government officials are prohibited making chilling opinions public policy, so they have to be careful what they say, as in Brendan Carr).
Si this conflict between Kimmel and ABC is not the same conflict as between ABC and the government. It’s not governed by an amendment that says “government shall make no laws…”
Kimmel’s restrictions and freedoms from restrictions by ABC are governed by an employment agreement.
That agreement certainly has terms of employment and termination clauses, and clauses related to rights surrounding triggering events. Events that can trigger contract clauses can relate to decency and moral turpitude, public displays and these include speech. Especially for a broadcaster.
Kimmel was never free by contract to say whatever opinion he wanted and not risk violating his contract or being fired or suspended. ABC can put terms in the contract the allow them to fire Kimmel for all sorts of things. Let’s say Kimmel goes nuts and puts out a string of nonsense and foul language, insulting everyone. Two days in a row. Just awful crap about puppy abortions - no one likes him. Whether ABC can suspend or fire Kimmel only has to do with contract, and so, is not a threat to anyone else’s freedom of speech at all. Nor is it a threat to Kimmel’s freedom of speech by the government. Besides being free to say and think whatever he wants, Kimmel just also agreed with ABC to whatever he agreed to say and not say by contract.
This is true for all of the employees who were fired when their boss saw them making public statements and associating with people who are glad Kirk won’t be “spewing hate” or whatever anymore. Everyone is free from government restraint. But not free social normativity.
So permit me to back up a third time.
I don’t want this to go on forever so I’ll sum up.
1. The first amendment is the principle held relatively absolute when it comes to opinion and political debate versus gov’t power.
2. Carr violated this principle at the ABC Kimmel broadcast.
3. Enough was done for now to check Brendan Carr and FCC over-reach.
4. The contract is the principle regulator of employees and employer rights. (Along with employment law which you would have to argue is on point here, but I don’t..)
5. Employees are free to agree by contract to limit their speech in order to be paid for services performed.
So if I wanted to make a book of how this is all consistent (doesn’t taint my integrity) I’d explain in more detail how:
6. Though the government cannot legally shut people up for their opinions, employers can legally fire employees for whatever is allowed by contract (which can be for no reason at all or because they don’t like what they say). If we infringe on this right of employers, we are limiting freedom for all people, not protecting rights. Government laws to stop employers from firing regardless of contract would be the end of free speech anywhere.
7. It can still be immoral or unethical to fire someone for speech. But this problem can be handled by more speech, as long as we remain free from gov’t restraint.
If I really wanted to make this more of document, we’d talk more about the constitution, how speech can in narrow circumstances be limited by government, and contract law, and employment law, and about moral versus political/criminal law.
And we’d talk about ABC leadership, who are chickenshit (so likely immoral).
And we’d go through some more specifics for the other people fired from jobs for being pigs about a murder. Nothing the government can do for having the opinion of a pig after a murder. But since when do we want to force employers to continue to pay people whose public displays can make the company look like assholes too?
There is a lot more to talk about.
But are you going all woke on me in your tactics? Et tu? Am I a hypocrite with no integrity who parrots talking points, or just another citizen trying to think for himself?
When I said lock a side, I meant vote for your beliefs. I didn’t mean grab your protest gear and shout down the enemy like a fascist, or go shut down speech, or shoot people, or dig in and not debate, or be unreasonable.
I am open to constructive criticism.