Yeah, exactly. — Qwex

Read my reply above and the same applies to you.

Regards
DL

Who gives a fuck. — Banno

All those negatively effected by Christianity.

That would include all gays and women who are denied equality by their homophobic and misogynous religion.

If you are not fighting that immoral thinking, you are not much of a man.

Regards
DL

I had never heard of this before, thank you for bringing new information to light, — sarah young

Always a pleasure to inform.

Regards
DL

954 — alcontali

I agree that we overuse and misapply labels.

Regards
DL

180 Proof — christian2017

What % of climate scientists agree with you?

That should be all I need to ask you.

You are in a tiny minority.

Regards
DL

42 — sarah young

Thanks for this. I agree with the one-upmanship.

I have a number of links showing Muslims teaching their young children to hate and play act at killing Jews, --- so I cannot quite agree with your "disregard" word.

Regards
DL

We are only saved by grace and faith. — matt

Which, according to scriptures, are in god's control as we are denied a free will choice.

Quite the vile prick that Yahweh. Right?

I ran the following a while back. You might have missed it.

==================

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then the is is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.


What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL

What faith do you profess? — TheMadFool

I do not use the word faith. That word leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I use religion.

I am a Gnostic Christian as I have not found a better all inclusive universalist ideology.

Most others are homophobic and misogynous.

It has been said that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. It is a truth, IMO.

Regards
DL

i don't believe climate change is caused by people. — christian2017

Then you are ignoring the findings of the vast majority of scientists on the planet.

You are as big of a fool on this as religion.

Regards
DL

I'm not certain whether we have free will or not — TheMadFool

We have a free will that is limited to physics and nature. I may wish to fly but physics says no.

A free will within the bounds I set is demonstrable and can even be tested to prove.

Scriptures though say that god hardens hearts, or not, against or for individuals as he chooses who he will grace with faith or belief and who he has chosen for hell and disbelief.

That goers to show how stupid on this the ancients were. They wrote that we are the dreaded robots.

Regards
DL

542 — 180 Proof

Thanks.

Regards
DL

I don't think there are such things as defective souls. — TheMadFool

Yet the vast majority of us are not good enough to get to heaven with the few who are good enough. I call the losers, you and I, defective souls. Be liberal with my analogy.

Are you suggesting that some are just born bad or good? — TheMadFool

Scriptures say that god hated Esau in the womb before he could even sin.

Where does that leave responsibility for one's own actions? — TheMadFool

Biblically speaking, we have no responsibility as Jesus took care of that for believers and the non-believers as scriptures again say, have had their hearts hardened by god and are part of the defective/damned to hell crowd.

God denies us all our free will. That's scripture.

------------------

Let me go long on this last.

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then the is is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL

Globalism is a bigger issue than the environment. — christian2017

I do not think we can cooperate enough as a world against climate change without globalizing more. One goes with the other.

Regards
DL

Gnostics don't believe that. Your parsing words. — christian2017

We are Universalists with a heaven but no hell.

Only a loser of a god would have to destroy his own works for not doing as programmed.
Even worse when scriptures say that only a few of us are worthy of his genocidal and infanticidal standards.

I take it you did not follow my link and are quite happy with your genocidal prick of a god.

Nice that you can ignore his satanic morals and ethics.

Regards
DL

Do you think a goatee would look good on a corpse? — TheMadFool

Well trimmed, sure.

Regards
DL

everything must be god's doing. — TheMadFool

Christianity preaches that using a scapegoat is moral and ok.

If god is in our image, he too will use a scapegoat and be as evil as humans who do not take responsibility for their own actions.

God says. The invention is defective, burn it.

I say, god makes defective souls and then blames them for being defective. Burn Yahweh.

Regards
DL

God's foreknowledge and man's freewill aren't mutually exclusive. — matt

Your own scriptures say that we do not have a free will to believe or not. The bible says god decides for us.

Here is the longer version.

---------------

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then the is is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL

He calls all to repentance. — matt

I did not hear the genocidal Yahweh repent for his own mass murders and genocides so my repenting for being and doing exactly what god created me to be and do I do not repent of. I had no free will, which is confirmed by the bible.

You must be reborn to enter the kingdom of God. — matt

I have been. Have you? Where did Jesus say the kingdom was? Right here on earth. Right?

We are in heaven, as Jesus said, but most, like you, do not see it. I do.

Regards
DL

What do you mean die in? — christian2017

I mean, ----- look at our eco system.

Would you like to see and live in what is coming, in terms of extinction and ecological hardship for yourself?

Not likely and here we are collectively continuing to make things worse.

Regards
DL

What religion or philosophy grants all souls equality? — christian2017

Gnostic Christianity for one. We have tied equality righteousness.

Here is the older explanation from Gnostic sources.

http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm

I see the same in the bible but Christians do not believe in the equality of souls the way we do.

Regards
DL

Well i disagree to a large extent that they are imaginary. Theres no use arguing over that aspect.

As for hate, anger and hate are a spectrum. Its alright to defend the lives of our children. To not care for our children shows that we have an apathetic soul. — christian2017

Correct. Only fools will argue for a supernatural realm that they can know nothing about.

As to children, and here I am looking at the world in total and the U.N. 10 year warning,

We are clearly showing as ma species that we will not defend the lives of our children as we are giving them a corrupted environment to live and likely die in.

That not caring for our children shows that we collectively have apathetic souls.

Regards
DL

To some extent i agree with that. There is alot to be desired in modern Christianity. — christian2017

Like what, given that they are still a homophobic and misogynous and refuse to grant all souls equality the way Jesus did?

Regards
DL

You didn't answer my question. How do you know Jesus said that?

FYI, I do not believe there exists an "immortal soul". — Relativist

Good. There is no evidence or proof of such a concept.

I do not even know if a supernatural Jesus ever lived and I attribute all that the scribes put into his mouth as their own biased words.

This is more like what I think of the history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgvws0ZYUE

Regards
DL

How do you know Jesus actually said that? — Relativist

All that the supernaturally based religions have to offer are lies and speculative nonsense about god.

I am not a literalist but write to engage them and I have to use their ball to play on their field.

but obviously YOUR faith isn't going to persuade anyone who doesn't share it. — Relativist

Only it my interlocutor is unconcerned with his moral soul and wants to continue to idol worship a genocidal and infanticidal prick of a god.

Many follow the satanic gods and you are right that just knowing their gods are pricks will no have them leave the comfort of their immoral tribes.

Regards
DL

How does God ensure that most will end in hell? — matt

In the book of his myth, the bible, it is written that Yahweh decides by the hardening of hearts and minds who will believe and be saved and who will end in hell for non-belief.

I put this old O.P. below to show some references. Opine on it if you like.

====================

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then the is is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.


What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL

When it comes to Christians, it's because of the Bible. — ssu

I agree but that is because the lying preachers do not show the truth of things. If the liars would speak the truth, things would be a lot better.

You will never hear a Christian explain why Yahweh chose a remedy for sin before he even invented the earth and the opportunity for us to sin, --- if his plan did not include sin.

Christians point to our free will but that ignores god own free will that made him insure that most of us ended in hell.

Regards
DL

actually Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it — christian2017

I agree.

Christians tend to ignore that a big part of that law is that we all take responsibility and punishment for our sins.

They ignore that justice to keep ridding their scapegoat Jesus and they want him to break many Jewish laws.

They are self serving and not Jesus serving. Christians who use Jesus as a scapegoat are quite immoral.

Regards
DL

Hate is indeed a human trait. So is love, and we default to love as our first instinct for survival. The hate is passed up from the bigoted peers.

IOWs, the religious feed the hate to maintain their tribal differences.

A poor religious trait seen in the worst of religions and mostly absent in the religions that seek knowledge and wisdom instead of imaginary supernatural gods.

Regards
DL

Wouldn't you love a person who would take up the infinitely horrible task of killing by torture no less a person than the son of god and that too so that you may be redeemed for your sins? — TheMadFool

The religious ignore that God chose Jesus to die even before the earth was created. That's scripture.

When they want some other scenario, they are too stupid to recognize that to change things would derail their god's master plan. That paradox is present in Adam's sin. Christians call it our fall, yet sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

Seems god planned our fall yet Christians blame man for it.

Regards
DL

They all worship a version of Jesus — Artemis

Yes. The Jesus that hates all those they hate.

That is why they love their version.

Regards
DL

On your insular point.

I saw a study of European cities, but this applies to most cities, and how they are laid out.

It showed that most cities have quarters and sections where various races, including Jews, congregate.
Italian quarters, French, Muslims etc.

We are all insular and tribal to a fault, if we consider the education levels of the general population.

Regards
DL

The Christian line is that Jesus altered Judaism (abolishing the "law", — Relativist

They seem to have ignored that Jesus said he came to fulfill the law.

Tribalism clouds/ignores perceptions.

Regards
DL

Not at all. Thomism launched us toward the scientific worldview we have today, and so is worth examining — frank

Science???

Christians sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

The Christians, even if they cannot explain their position the same way you cannot, shows that your Thomist thinking is just rehashed garbage.

Sure, sin helps in identifying evil, but to say that rape and murder somehow produce a greater good is ridiculous. We all know that those are evil.

Now if you were talking evolution and how we must all do some evil as we compete and create losers, then I would agree that those small evils do create the greater good by showing us who is the fittest humans.

Regards
DL

I was explaining Thomism on ethics. — frank

If what you put is their ethics, they are garbage.

That must be true as, like a Thomist, I do not have to make my case.

Regards
DL

How G D handy for you.

That is as good as hiding behind a supernatural shield.

That is called hypocrisy and religions called what you do as what led to inquisitions and jihads.

Try thinking for yourself in a logical way.

Regards
DL

Let me know what you think. — James Moore

I think we have free will in spite of scriptures saying we do not, as it does in the quotes in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

As I said, I see the evil in evolution that is forced upon us as a small evil in a larger good and thus we must live with it or go extinct.

We can mitigate that harm but to eliminate it would be disastrous.

Regards
DL

The existence of evil brings about a greater good. — frank

??

How does a rape contribute to the greater good, and if it does, why are there laws against it?

Regards
DL

He said that original sin is a physical sin written in our genes. — Gregory

What sin are we discussing?

Is it one of the capital sins or just a minor sin?

Would it be moral for a god to create us to sin, then punish us forever for just following the nature god put into us?

Regards
DL

leo — leo

No argument on your points.

The intelligentsia will prevail over time.

Regards
DL

uncanni — uncanni

You speak of the tip of the corruption iceberg.

Regards
DL