Still, the Chinese leader, who before the war referred to Putin as his best friend, notably stopped short of asking Russia to withdraw, a key demand for Ukraine and its Western backers. — China’s Xi warns Putin not to use nuclear arms in Ukraine · Stuart Lau · POLITICO · Nov 4, 2022

We cannot afford any further escalation — Li Keqiang

We have agreed that threatening nuclear attacks is irresponsible and dangerous. I have told President Xi the importance for China to exert its influence on Russia. — Olaf Scholz

I'm afraid I just don't understand what you're saying here at all. — Isaac

I'm also not claiming that countries don't exist. I'm claiming they don't have a right to exist. — Isaac

It's transparent and tiresome. — Isaac

Anyway, am I then to understand that the situation with the children, by your take, is irrelevant, does not figure in any limitation where — jorndoe

The limits are between what to tolerate and not to tolerate, what they may get away with and not get away with — jorndoe

? — jorndoe

the situation with the children has come up among peace criteria and whatnot — jorndoe

That would be a response to my comment. — jorndoe

I can't answer that question because you've not answered my request for clarity on it. 'Tolerate' how? — Isaac

the situation with the children has come up among peace criteria and whatnot — jorndoe

Anyway, am I then to understand that the situation with the children, by your take, is irrelevant, does not figure in any limitation where — jorndoe

The limits are between what to tolerate and not to tolerate, what they may get away with and not get away with — jorndoe

? — jorndoe

That would be a response to my comment. — jorndoe

If peace negotiations have to agree to the legitimacy of the current political map in order to take place, then how are border changes ever legitimised? — Isaac

It's not made so simply by you saying it. — Isaac

You (nor anyone else on this thread) have given absolutely no reasons why Russia would accept any terms at all, let alone the undoing of this 'repatriation' they've apparently just done. — Isaac

the situation with the children has come up among peace criteria and whatnot — jorndoe

I'm saying "wait for evidence" is the response to your question. — Isaac

The answer would be the same. — Isaac

The limits are between what to tolerate and not to tolerate, what they may get away with and not get away with — jorndoe

Acknowledgement of the existence of spurious entities such as 'states' is not a requirement for peace — Isaac

Bomb them too? — Isaac

Are the child abductions acceptable collateral damage, and so there's nothing further to be done here? (To show an extreme limit, I'm guessing no one would nuke Moscow due to this.) — jorndoe

Then I'm afraid the point you're making remains opaque. — Isaac

You folk are reading extras into my comments here. — jorndoe

Again, propaganda. Collateral damage to what NATO actions? — boethius

seem to be implying that we're holding back some sanction we have available — Isaac

What is this punishment you think we've been holding in reserve — Isaac

Resolution ES‑11/2 reaffirmed the UN's former commitments and obligations under its Charter, and reiterated its demand that Russia withdraw from Ukraine's recognized sovereign territory; it also deplored, expressed grave concern over and condemned attacks on civilian populations and infrastructure. Fourteen principles were agreed. — United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/2

Why would there be limits in evaluating consequences? — boethius

• Zeno: motion is illusory
• Aristotle, Hume: no change implies no time (an empirical perspective)
• Kant: time and space are a priori (pre)conditions for all experience
• McTaggart: bah, smoke and mirrors, nothing but illusion and humbug
• Robb: time is a causal dimension of the world
• Shoemaker: time without change is conceivable (and logically consistent)

• duration: it takes time to get to work in the morning
• simultaneity: we get to work about the same time in the morning, as agreed prior

• Suppose x is defined as not spatial, "outside of space". Then x is nowhere to be found. And x cannot have any extent, volume, area, length, or the like, not even zero-dimensional (like a mathematical singularity).
• Suppose x is defined as atemporal, "outside of time". Then x can't be at any time. And there can be no duration involved, x cannot change, or be subject to causation, cannot interact, and would be inert and lifeless.

• it takes time to get to work in the morning (duration)
• work is elsewhere (distance)
• we have our recurring phone meetings (simultaneity) as agreed prior (past)
• we have a presentations room for visitors at work (place)

Man was given instruction to produce children in a sacred covenant of marriage and to live simply without extravagance. We chose (someone and enough did somewhere up the line) to overproduce, to try to become gods of this planet with machines and technology that produce all kinds of lethal and harmful things to us ie. hazardous byproducts, radiation, air contaminants, you name it, wage war on others for worldly purposes and visit places we were not meant to be (could be radioactive land, places at risk for natural disasters, etc), as well as change the way man was meant to live by social practices whose effects on society are still largely unknown (some people are on the computer or the XBOX staring at a screen for days or even weeks on end without seeing another soul- that can't be good?) — Outlander

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. — Genesis 1:28

And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. — Genesis 9:7

One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. — Ecclesiastes 1:4

Man was given instruction to [...] — Outlander

Either we win, or you lose. — Putin (para)

Understood, sir. — Manager (para)

Donetsk ···· 99.2%
Luhansk ···· 98.4%
Zaporizhia · 93.1%
Kherson ···· 87.1%

Frankly speaking, I was not just happy, but surprised with the results of the referendums. [...] We've decided and I've decided for myself: it's going to be how the people say. And the results are more than convincing and absolutely transparent, beyond any doubt. — Putin

This is a subject of the Russian Federation, this status is legally defined and fixed. There are no and cannot be any changes here. — The Kremlin said that the Kherson region remains a Russian region · Dmitry Peskov · Nov 11, 2022

• recognition of Crimea
• independence of Luhansk and Donetsk
• de-militarization and de-Nazification of Ukraine

All [30 or so] member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization commit themselves to refrain from any further enlargement of NATO, including the accession of Ukraine as well as other States

The United States of America shall undertake to prevent further eastward expansion of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and deny accession to the Alliance to the States of the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

• NATO troops/military added in Ukraine could be seen as threatening
• NATO membership would prevent/deter Russia from invasion (or similar)

And a bunch of cotton wool sharply began to accuse us of provocation, cooperation with the SBU, and so on. And we just stated the obvious - the clowns from the Moscow Region did not learn how to fight normally in 8 months. The city was not destroyed even before the surrender (everything should have been blown up). But cotton wool is grabbing - they have enough excuses for clown AP channels (and channels of supposedly military specialists who are sitting in the rear). For us, this is another betrayal of the Russian people, who believe less and less that "Russia is here forever." What's the next goodwill gesture? Berdyansk or Melitopol? — DShRG Rusich (Nov 9, 2022)

a more defensible position, from which they can bomb Kherson to the ground — Olivier5

1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.

4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

Moscow orders retreat from Kherson — Olivier5

don't buy for a second that he's actually concerned about Nazis — Isaac

Its goal is to protect people who have been subjected to bullying and genocide by the Kiev regime for eight years. And for this we will strive for the demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine, as well as bringing to justice those who committed numerous, bloody crimes against civilians, including citizens of the Russian Federation.
At the same time, our plans do not include the occupation of Ukrainian territories. We are not going to impose anything on anyone by force. — Full text: Putin’s declaration of war on Ukraine · Feb 24, 2022

the introduction of such a subject in schools will allow for the systematic preparation of citizens for a possible confrontation with the enemy — Sergei Mironov

Soviet school kids were taught to assemble and disassemble Kalashnikovs. Now ‘Basic Military Training’ is set to return to Russian schools. Today one unhappy parent tells a Russian newspaper: “We should prepare our children for a peaceful happy life, not for war.” — Steve Rosenberg · Nov 9, 2022

corporate opportunity to screw everyone — Isaac

Bayer plans to invest approximately $34.9 million (35 million euros) to boost the capacity of the company's seed processing facility in Pochuiky in Ukraine's Zhytomyr region.
[...]
Bayer has donated more than 40,000 bags of corn seed that will enable more than 1,250 smaller farmers to grow food. — USAID and Bayer partner to support Ukrainian farmers and address the global food security crisis (Oct 11, 2022)

point about any deal — Isaac

As for the limits of the goals that we set during our special military operation, the President has outlined these goals, they remain unchanged. They will be achieved. Ukraine shouldn’t be a terrorist state that terrorizes its own citizens. It should not be a country that’s allowed everything, and whose impunity crosses all boundaries and leads to murders of journalists, political figures, and deputies of the Verkhovnaya Rada. It’s not only about the residents of Donbass, but about how Ukrainian nationalists treat peaceful citizens, as it is now happening in those areas of the Kharkov Region, and parts of the Zaporozhye Region, that they entered after our special military operation participants regrouped. — Sergey Lavrov · TASS · Oct 11, 2022

going to take more than non-NATO membership — Isaac

already an agreement — Isaac

Does it look like Russia gives a flying fuck — Isaac

their naval base is currently in their territory — Isaac

This ship has sailed — Isaac

they can just stop — Isaac

they're a lost cause as far as the 'Western' influence Putin fears — Isaac

Do you think there's a significant opposition in Russia that would be satisfied by such an agreement? — Isaac

I think Putin is one of the radicals — Isaac

something more substantial — Isaac