I.e. "existence is" a sentence fragment. :roll:Existence is "What is". — Philosophim
Yes, but those "expressions" come well after Husserl and his immediate followers.Fair enough. Don't some expression of phenomenology try to break down the mind/body problem with embodied cognition? — Tom Storm
And, more philosophically, whether or not X is undecidable (if so, then epochē), Y is less unreasonable, or fallacious, than Z and how to determine (and interpret) such distinctions. :chin:It's just that we always seem to come back to quesions about what is true and how do we know it.
:sweat: Yes, of course.That's because you are religiously blind, don't you know? :wink: — Janus
On the contrary, apologists are anyone who begs questions with mysteries rather than answering (reasoning) with public evidence and sound arguments in order to rationalize (i.e. make merely subjective excuses for) their "ideas" or "beliefs".Apologists' being anyone who questions naive realism, right? — Wayfarer
... so I stand by my counter-argument until someone (or myself) refutes it.1. If "objective moral good" entails objective moral bad
— 180 Proof
i.e. show that the latter (bad) is not entailed by the former (good). — 180 Proof
:up: :up:The landmass may have been called Europe by some guy called Ptolemy, but so what? It is only relevant because we now through our construction of history hold Ptolemy in high regard. — Tobias
:fire:It is through conquest that 'Europe' became a thing. Not by being a 'thing in itself' but an entity developed, adorned and embellished by ...
:100:Scholasticism to me is not a candidate for any special status. Islamic and Judaic philosophers were more adapt at it, or at least equal.
i.e. show that the latter (bad) is not entailed by the former (good).1. If "objective moral good" entails objective moral bad — 180 Proof
Assuming this is not a merely rhetorical quesrion, maybe this link (below) will help clarify for you what I mean by human fear of ...The human fear of death.
—180 Proof
I wonder, what is fear? — Constance
And so what's your point?The landmass was already called Europe since ancient times. — Lionino
Sure ...... according to the OP, "objective morality" is conditional, not "existence".
—180 Proof
Can you quote the part of the OP you're talking about? — Philosophim
The point I will make below: If there is an objective morality, the most logical fundamental aspect of that morality is that existence is good. — Philosophim
IIRC, there was no "Europe" until Charlemagne's reign. Several centuries later, in the wake of "the Black Death", my guess is Magna Carta (proto-republicanism) + plundering the Americas, etc + "The Renaissance" gave Europe its modern direction.What changed the direction Europe was going? — Athena
Thanks.No worry on the delay, have a safe trip! — Philosophim
You're moving the goalposts: according to the OP, "objective morality" is conditional, not "existence". Your objection above is incorrect.3 is incorrect. If there should be existence, then the absence of existence would be bad.
1. If "objective moral good" entails objective moral bad, and
2. if "objective moral good" assumes "existence is good",
3. then objective bad assumes existence is bad;
4 therefore if "objective morality",
5. then it necessarily assumes existence is both good and bad (i.e. "should be" and should not be) simultaneously – which is a contradiction;
6. therefore either (A) "objective morality" is not possible or (B) "objective morality" does not necessarily assume (5) the contradiction "existence should be";
7. however, objective morality is possible (e.g. disutilitarianism),
8. therefore (B) objective morality does not necessarily assume (5) the contradiction "existence should be". — QED
The human fear of death.I am asking what there is in the world that gives religion its fundamental justification. — Constance
Religion (i.e. cult), n. The private and public worship, or propitiation, of spirits (i.e. disembodied agents) primarily by practicing ritual reenactments of myths and legends. Animism (with or without shamanism) might be the oldest form of religion, or superstition.
In this context, the only positive claim I make is 'I deny that theism is true' (i.e. insofar as g/G is real, I find theism's claims 'about g/G' are neither true nor coherent).Many atheists actually don't deny the existence of gods. I am an atheist. I don't make a positive claim like that. — Tom Storm
:roll:Fear of death assumes there is something fearful about death. — Constance
Deeper, more basic, than that, I think religion (i.e. 'immortality' rituals) is our species' earliest collective coping strategy for fear of death (i.e. ontophobia (or meontic veraphobia) aka 'nihilism'). I suspect "ethical indeterminancy" is the effect, not cause, of religion insofar as religion ritually manifests (à la principle of explosion) various performative and symbolic denials of (the 'radical determinancy' of) mortality.Religion rises out of the radical ethical indeterminacy of our existence. — Constance
:100: :fire:This fallacy goes around and is very popular (with the like's of @BitconnectCarlos and the type).
[ ... ]
Then again, genocide does work as a way to destroy the enemy... totally. As the Romans themselves said: Ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant (they create a desert and call it peace). Worked wonders for the Mongol Empire for a short time. But is there moral justification for this kind of war? No. — ssu
Agreed, just as I point out here (this link below was included in the post before my previous one):Morality is more than one's own self-interest. — Philosophim
Prevent or reduce your (or another's) suffering without increasing your (or another's) suffering. In other words, you should either seek help from others or help yourself and both without causing more harm to others or yourself.Correct. But how should I respond to my suffering?
You exist, there is no "why" (because every conceivable "fundamental why" begs the question). Also, "why should ... exist" conflates prescription with description which is a category error; the question is incoherent (and therefore not "fundamental").And this still does not answer the more fundamental: 'Why should I exist to suffer at all?'
Humans exist, there is no "why" (because every conceivable "fundamental why" begs the question). Also, "why should ... exist" conflates prescription with description which is a category error; the question is incoherent (and therefore not "fundamental").No disagreement here [ ... ] And the more fundamental: 'Why should humanity exist to flourish at all?'
"Murdering" is not a non-zero sum resolution to conflict, which may "help" you to survive but survival is not the sufficient condition for flourishing. Again, your question – in effect, 'what if being un-reasonable (maladaptive) helps me to flourish' – does not make sense as a reply to what I wrote above about being reasonable.We are (often) reasonable in order to cooperate, or negotiate non-zerosum resolutions to conflict.
— 180 Proof
And what if it is reasonable that murdering the other person resolves my conflict and helps me to flourish?
Beings with reason exist, there is no "why" (because every conceivable "fundamental why" begs the question). Also, "why should ... exist" conflates prescription with description which is a category error; the question is incoherent (and therefore not "fundamental").And once again, to the more fundamental: 'Why should beings with reason exist at all?'
Suffering (i.e. dysfunction, loss of homeostasis, fear) happens, like life itself, is a ubiquitous, objective fact (e.g. human facticity).I still don't see it as objective. — Philosophim
We flourish in order not to languish. Not to flourish is maladaptive.For example, why should humans flourish?
We are (often) reasonable in order to cooperate, or negotiate non-zerosum resolutions to conflict. Not to be reasonable (more often than unreasonable) is maladaptive.Why should humans be reasonable?
:up: Nazarenes ?I would not call the original sect prior to Paul, "Christianity". Paul put the Christ in Christianity — schopenhauer1
Asylums are rife with such "true ... evidence".(5) There are prayer-induced experiences of observations that correspond to Bible-specific propositions, therefore they are evidence Christianity is true. — Hallucinogen
:up:God had an idea that something very unpleasant and sometimes fatal was a good idea. I suspect that a kinder omnipotence would have found a better way to achieve those good ends. — Vera Mont
