Comments

  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    .
    Existence is "What is".Philosophim
    I.e. "existence is" a sentence fragment. :roll:
  • The essence of religion
    Fair enough. Don't some expression of phenomenology try to break down the mind/body problem with embodied cognition?Tom Storm
    Yes, but those "expressions" come well after Husserl and his immediate followers.

    It's just that we always seem to come back to quesions about what is true and how do we know it.
    And, more philosophically, whether or not X is undecidable (if so, then epochē), Y is less unreasonable, or fallacious, than Z and how to determine (and interpret) such distinctions. :chin:
  • The essence of religion
    The question-begging (Platonic / Cartesian / transcendent) assumption in (Kantian, Husserlian) transcendental arguments is that "in there" (mind) is somehow separable from – outside of – "out there" (non-mind (e.g. world)). That's how it's always seemed to me which is why I prefer Spinoza's philosophical naturalism to the much less radical (i.e. more anthropocentric) 'transcendental idealism' of Kant et al.

    That's because you are religiously blind, don't you know? :wink:Janus
    :sweat: Yes, of course.

    Apologists' being anyone who questions naive realism, right?Wayfarer
    On the contrary, apologists are anyone who begs questions with mysteries rather than answering (reasoning) with public evidence and sound arguments in order to rationalize (i.e. make merely subjective excuses for) their "ideas" or "beliefs".
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    Your non-reply reply to my (i.e. showing that your previous objection to my counter-argument fails) speaks for itself, sir.
  • The essence of religion
    When we say "transcendence", don't we usually mean something metaphysical like 'X transcends, or is beyond, Y' (e.g. ineffable, inexplicable, unconditional, immaterial, disembodied, etc)? This differs from "transcendental" which denotes 'anterior conditions which make X epistemically possible' (Kant, Husserl). I usually can't tell from their posts what most members like @Wayfarer or @Constance intelligibly mean by either of these terms.

    :100:
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    Okay, you can't ...
    1. If "objective moral good" entails objective moral bad
    — 180 Proof
    i.e. show that the latter (bad) is not entailed by the former (good).
    180 Proof
    ... so I stand by my counter-argument until someone (or myself) refutes it.

    :up: :up:
  • The Idea That Changed Europe
    The landmass may have been called Europe by some guy called Ptolemy, but so what? It is only relevant because we now through our construction of history hold Ptolemy in high regard.Tobias
    :up: :up:

    @Lionino

    It is through conquest that 'Europe' became a thing. Not by being a 'thing in itself' but an entity developed, adorned and embellished by ...
    :fire:

    Scholasticism to me is not a candidate for any special status. Islamic and Judaic philosophers were more adapt at it, or at least equal.
    :100:

    @Athena (re: pre-Hebrew Bible antiquity of "Genesis" stories ... :up: )
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    From my counter-argument: both 1 and 2 (re: OP) together imply 3. If not, refute
    1. If "objective moral good" entails objective moral bad180 Proof
    i.e. show that the latter (bad) is not entailed by the former (good).

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/904196
  • The essence of religion
    The human fear of death.
    —180 Proof

    I wonder, what is fear?
    Constance
    Assuming this is not a merely rhetorical quesrion, maybe this link (below) will help clarify for you what I mean by human fear of ...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear
  • The Idea That Changed Europe
    Okay, on both counts we disagree.
  • The Idea That Changed Europe
    The landmass was already called Europe since ancient times.Lionino
    And so what's your point?
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    ... according to the OP, "objective morality" is conditional, not "existence".
    —180 Proof

    Can you quote the part of the OP you're talking about?
    Philosophim
    Sure ...
    The point I will make below: If there is an objective morality, the most logical fundamental aspect of that morality is that existence is good.Philosophim
  • The Idea That Changed Europe
    What changed the direction Europe was going?Athena
    IIRC, there was no "Europe" until Charlemagne's reign. Several centuries later, in the wake of "the Black Death", my guess is Magna Carta (proto-republicanism) + plundering the Americas, etc + "The Renaissance" gave Europe its modern direction.
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    No worry on the delay, have a safe trip!Philosophim
    Thanks.

    3 is incorrect. If there should be existence, then the absence of existence would be bad.
    You're moving the goalposts: according to the OP, "objective morality" is conditional, not "existence". Your objection above is incorrect.
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    Consider:
    1. If "objective moral good" entails objective moral bad, and

    2. if "objective moral good" assumes "existence is good",

    3. then objective bad assumes existence is bad;

    4 therefore if "objective morality",

    5. then it necessarily assumes existence is both good and bad (i.e. "should be" and should not be) simultaneously – which is a contradiction;

    6. therefore either (A) "objective morality" is not possible or (B) "objective morality" does not necessarily assume (5) the contradiction "existence should be";

    7. however, objective morality is possible (e.g. disutilitarianism),

    8. therefore (B) objective morality does not necessarily assume (5) the contradiction "existence should be".
    — QED

    Show where my reasoning goes wrong and thereby defeat this counter-argument to the OP.

    (fyi – I'm traveling today so I'm on my phone and may not be able to post responses promptly.)
  • The essence of religion
    I am asking what there is in the world that gives religion its fundamental justification.Constance
    The human fear of death.
  • The essence of religion
    Addendum to an old post from the 2022 thread The Concept of Religion ...
    Religion (i.e. cult), n. The private and public worship, or propitiation, of spirits (i.e. disembodied agents) primarily by practicing ritual reenactments of myths and legends. Animism (with or without shamanism) might be the oldest form of religion, or superstition.

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/903982

    Many atheists actually don't deny the existence of gods. I am an atheist. I don't make a positive claim like that.Tom Storm
    In this context, the only positive claim I make is 'I deny that theism is true' (i.e. insofar as g/G is real, I find theism's claims 'about g/G' are neither true nor coherent).
  • The essence of religion
    Fear of death assumes there is something fearful about death.Constance
    :roll:
  • The essence of religion
    I don't understand the question.
  • The essence of religion
    Religion rises out of the radical ethical indeterminacy of our existence.Constance
    Deeper, more basic, than that, I think religion (i.e. 'immortality' rituals) is our species' earliest collective coping strategy for fear of death (i.e. ontophobia (or meontic veraphobia) aka 'nihilism'). I suspect "ethical indeterminancy" is the effect, not cause, of religion insofar as religion ritually manifests (à la principle of explosion) various performative and symbolic denials of (the 'radical determinancy' of) mortality.
  • Are War Crimes Ever Justified?
    This fallacy goes around and is very popular (with the like's of @BitconnectCarlos and the type).

    [ ... ]

    Then again, genocide does work as a way to destroy the enemy... totally. As the Romans themselves said: Ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant (they create a desert and call it peace). Worked wonders for the Mongol Empire for a short time. But is there moral justification for this kind of war? No.
    ssu
    :100: :fire:
  • Was Schopenhauer right?
    Yes, and it was the 'orgiastic worship (i.e. revels = revelations) of the Dionysus-myth' in particular – not the myth itself –that N found life-affirming in contrast to e.g. Christianity ... or S's life-denying ('world weary') pessimism (and his quasi-Stoic response to 'suffering').
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    Morality is more than one's own self-interest.Philosophim
    Agreed, just as I point out here (this link below was included in the post before my previous one):

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/887625

    In sum, the objective fact of the matter is this: 'all human beings suffer because we are alive and to varying degrees we human beings flourish – e.g. (in general) form more adaptive than maladaptive habits by daily preventing and reducing suffering without causing more suffering – in order not to merely languish'. For me, this is the objective, naturalistic basis of ethics and I observe that moral conduct or norms, to varying degrees of customary or subjective performance, manifest and/or conflict with this ethos.

    Correct. But how should I respond to my suffering?
    Prevent or reduce your (or another's) suffering without increasing your (or another's) suffering. In other words, you should either seek help from others or help yourself and both without causing more harm to others or yourself.

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/843592

    And this still does not answer the more fundamental: 'Why should I exist to suffer at all?'
    You exist, there is no "why" (because every conceivable "fundamental why" begs the question). Also, "why should ... exist" conflates prescription with description which is a category error; the question is incoherent (and therefore not "fundamental").

    No disagreement here [ ... ] And the more fundamental: 'Why should humanity exist to flourish at all?'
    Humans exist, there is no "why" (because every conceivable "fundamental why" begs the question). Also, "why should ... exist" conflates prescription with description which is a category error; the question is incoherent (and therefore not "fundamental").

    We are (often) reasonable in order to cooperate, or negotiate non-zerosum resolutions to conflict. 
    — 180 Proof

    And what if it is reasonable that murdering the other person resolves my conflict and helps me to flourish?
    "Murdering" is not a non-zero sum resolution to conflict, which may "help" you to survive but survival is not the sufficient condition for flourishing. Again, your question – in effect, 'what if being un-reasonable (maladaptive) helps me to flourish' – does not make sense as a reply to what I wrote above about being reasonable.

    And once again, to the more fundamental: 'Why should beings with reason exist at all?'
    Beings with reason exist, there is no "why" (because every conceivable "fundamental why" begs the question). Also, "why should ... exist" conflates prescription with description which is a category error; the question is incoherent (and therefore not "fundamental").

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/887625
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    An assertion without argument deserves to be dismissed without argument. :wink:
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    I still don't see it as objective.Philosophim
    Suffering (i.e. dysfunction, loss of homeostasis, fear) happens, like life itself, is a ubiquitous, objective fact (e.g. human facticity).

    For example, why should humans flourish?
    We flourish in order not to languish. Not to flourish is maladaptive.

    Why should humans be reasonable?
    We are (often) reasonable in order to cooperate, or negotiate non-zerosum resolutions to conflict. Not to be reasonable (more often than unreasonable) is maladaptive.
  • Christianity - an influence for good?
    I would not call the original sect prior to Paul, "Christianity". Paul put the Christ in Christianityschopenhauer1
    :up: Nazarenes ?
  • An Argument for Christianity from Prayer-Induced Experiences
    (5) There are prayer-induced experiences of observations that correspond to Bible-specific propositions, therefore they are evidence Christianity is true.Hallucinogen
    Asylums are rife with such "true ... evidence".
  • Was Schopenhauer right?
    the mad god DionysusCiceronianus
    i.e. life-affirming ("ja-sagen")
  • ChatGPT 4 Answers Philosophical Questions
    I think you may have meant 'can't'.bert1
    Yes, thanks for catching the typo.

    See? It doesn't work.
    Well, at least @Sam26 got the sarcasm. :wink:
  • ChatGPT 4 Answers Philosophical Questions
    I can't ask the question any clearer If you don't get it, then I assume the answer is "no". LLMs are still just sophisticated toys. Never mind, carry on.
  • OpenAI chat on Suicide and Yukio Mishima
    Are you familiar with the Keiji Nishitani's Religion and Nothingness? If so, what do you think of his outlook on death, etc? If not, consider this video synopsis of thought (which, IMO, far exceeds Y. Mishima's 'romanticize death'-wish):



    Ask OpenAI what it "thinks" of Nishitani's "overcoming nihilism through nihilism". :smirk:
  • Is atheism illogical?
    God had an idea that something very unpleasant and sometimes fatal was a good idea. I suspect that a kinder omnipotence would have found a better way to achieve those good ends.Vera Mont
    :up:

    If a deity is "omnipotent" (which entails "omniscience"), then why didn't it create a reality that fulfills its goals without severely, often fatally, harming its creatures? And if it cannot, then, as Epicurus asks, why call this deity – why worship – "God"? No doubt, just another informal version of

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_poor_design
  • ChatGPT 4 Answers Philosophical Questions
    So what, if any, philosophical questions does ChatGPT# ever raise (without begging them)?
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    13May24

    Today in Trumpenfreude

    It must be Monday morning (poor effin' MAGA). With a boat load of receipts, former "fixer" Michael Cohen flagrantly flips on Don Snoreleone and apparently without even waking the soon-to-be convicted felon. :yawn:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/13/donald-trump-trial-news-hush-money-case-live-updates/73665779007/