Maybe not. Why would we rationally want that?Of course modern AI is becoming a necessary tool in neuroscientific experiments, but maybe there is a limit to the extent to which we want AI's to understand us better than we understand ourselves? — wonderer1
:up:A passive-aggressive front allows you to hide behind the pretence of innocence, even victimhood. Meh. I think your arguments are just poor. — Banno
:roll:Bottom line The learned belief system for democracy with liberty is- democracy is rule by reason and all citizens need education for good reasoning. — Athena
I am not (consciously) "anthropocentric" at all.I agree with you that I am far more anthropocentric than you are. — universeness
I'm also not "misanthropic" at all.I think by now, you know that I celebrate that difference between us, and I would love to convince you to be less misanthropic than I think you are.
FWIW, I found your meaning perfectly clear. :up:Individually, we have done surprisingly well at letting the law or God carry out our vengeance. In groups, we have much less self-control; in mobs, none at all. — Vera Mont
Reread the preceding two-thirds of the sentence in question in order to grok the last third.I just do not understand how you arrive at that. — universeness
We "create meaning and purpose" for ourselves, that's all we "know" – which is merely parochial and anthropocentric – so big whup! Evidently, the universe doesn't care one wit. Copernicus' principle is consistent with Zapffe-Camus' absurd. On a cosmic scale, universeness, the whole of our quarter-milluon year young species is infinitesmal in significance (though that might change ever so slightly with the advent of our "last invention": AGI—>ASI). H. sapiens is only a few footprints in a cosmic surf which postbiomorphs might 'rediscover' as an anomalous fossil worthy of study. Apparently you've repeatedly ignored my stated position: We – all human civilizations – are just a cocoon, mate, not the butterfly. Denial of our manifest cosmic insignificance is, to my mind, religious. :sparkle: :pray: :eyes:I assumed, that you have previously agreed, that humans create meaning and purpose in ways that no other existent we know of, can or does. Do you disagree with that?
It was just fine without human beings during the 13.8 billion years prior to a quarter million years ago so I suspect – consistent with the mediocrity principle – that the universe would be neither worse nor better off without us.How would you respond to a poll question like:
Ignoring any bias from being one, do you think the universe would be a better place without humans? — universeness
I'm referring toI am not sure which mammals you are referring to with 'other higher mammals' ...
Your proposed "optimistic technopaganism", Bret, seems suitable for maximizing (A) & (B) – far more completely than any human religious tradition or mystical practice ever has – at the expense of minimizing / eliminating (C). Ramification of bio-physical law: paths (A & B) of least effort / action, especially when facilitated-amplified by orders of magnitude (re: OP's 'ubiquitious, continuous cognitive automation'), trump any path (C) of more-than-least effort / action; in other words, a species-wide cyber-lobotomy. :eyes:(A) taking customary questions and/or answers for granted (i.e. living somnambulantly)
(B) faith in miraculous answers which we do not know how to question (i.e. living religiously)
(C) contemplating fundamental questions which we do not know how to answer (i.e. living philosophically)
So some impersonal entity, not me (i.e. not mine-ness), "gets reincarnated"? If that's the case, then I need not care about "the soul" and live as I like (maybe finding a purely immanent, this-worldly basis by which to survive and thrive in the here and now). :fire:... it is the soul that gets reincarnated; that thoughts, feelings, the body are not the self. — baker
How collectivist of you ... :mask:... if we are to survive as a species. — NOS4A2
:up:Individually, we have done surprisingly well at letting the law or God carry out our vengeance. In groups, we have much less self-control; in mobs, none at all. — Vera Mont
:fire:... the interpretation of the pagan philosophers who acknowledged that there was but one God [Brahman, Dao, Void, Substance] and considered the many gods of traditional religion to be aspects [maya, ten thousand things, atoms, modes] of the one God. — Ciceronianus
No doubt, they'd rather burn down the American Republic than share it with the descendants of those whom their ancestors had once murderously stole it from and savagely enslaved in order to build it. A reckoning – it's only a matter of time. I vividly recall driving past a billboard on a rural Tennessee stretch of US Interstate in the summer of 2016 that read: "Make America White Again". Chilling, not surprising. And the trend lines since, according to (e.g.) the FBI's hate crimes / domestic terrorism statistics and exploding gun-ammunition sales, have not been encouraging ...The overweight undereducated white men are terrified of losing their ascendancy; many white people are afraid of becoming submerged in a population of darker hues; many urban people are afraid of replacement by automated modern industry; many rural people are afraid of becoming outmoded, irrelevant. Any far-right figurehead who assures them that they are important, valued, worthy of ruling the world the way they imagine they used to, will be followed. — Vera Mont
/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/MJOQNUEV7JPCBLN6QOWOUSJEYE.jpg)
... messianic Jewish settlers & Hamas.The majority of Jewish people in the diaspora and in Israel for a long time have favored a two-state solution ... it's a national question, it's a land question. This is also the expressed view of the United States Congress, of American Jewry, of the United Nations, of the European Union ... and of the Palestinian Liberation Organization. It's what the majority of people involved in this dispute want. Why can't they get what we all want? Why is it made impossible? Because in both communities the veto is held by 'the party of God' ... — Christopher Hitchens, 2009
Suppose eternity is the ocean and time (i.e. our spacetime) is a wave on the ocean's surface ... Not "the absence of time" but rather eternity is the whole of all times (e.g. block universe, the bulk, true vacuum). :chin:Eternity [is] not before time temporally because it is the absence of time. — Gregory
"In principle" there is not any fact of the matter that can make the statement true. At most, it's a supposition expressed (confusedly) in a declarative, or categorical, form (as philosophers are wont to do).Let's take one of your previous examples (of a philosophical statement that you say is non-propositional): "Consciousness is fundamentaltoreality"^^. Are you saying that, in principle, that statement is not truth-apt? — Bob Ross
Yes, of course.Are you, likewise, saying it is a non-cognitive statement?
:100: :fire:Netanyahu helped create Hamas, just like the US helped create Al Qaeda, ISIS, etc.
He used Hamas specifically to sabotage the PLO to avoid having serious talks about two-state solutions and other peace plans.
[ ... ]
The US committed de facto genocide in Vietnam, and it wasn't enough to secure them victory.
This method (sadly) has been tried, and it has failed every time. turning the perpetrators into the very monsters they claimed they were fighting. — Tzeentch
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius. — reportedly spoken by the commander of the Albigensian Crusade, prior to the massacre at Béziers on 22 July 1209
:100: :fire:The Trump anomaly is a symptom, not the disease or the cause. All he, as a deeply disturbed individual, wants is attention - all of it, all the time, by any means - and he's getting it whether he succeeds or fails in his aspirations, whether he steals from a city or a charity, whether he keeps a promise to his allies or throws them under buses, whether he gets legislation passed or vetoes it, whether he supports or opposes the constitution, whether he commits misdemeanors, of felonies or treason, whether he faces prosecution or evades it.
Whether he wants a war - class, civil or foreign - is immaterial. It's going to happen, because that's the inevitable devolution of events from 1963 to the present.
Trump could never have been able to get the first nomination, had the GOP not reached that level of jingoism, corruption and craven conformity. He could not have stirred up the yahoos at his rallies, had they not already been mustered and enraged by a long line of his predecessors. He could not have squeaked through that election, had the voting procedures not already been fatally compromised by state level tampering.
Everything, at least from the Kennedy assassination, through the Civil Rights movement and opposition to the Viet Nam war has been leading up to a Trump or something like him. If he drops dead tomorrow, or is incarcerated (as any other citizen with his record would have been, years ago) or withdraws from politics, it will make no difference to the march of events. — Vera Mont
