If so, then what else matters most?That is not what matters most. — Darkneos
:smirk:If you want humility and open-mindedness , you’re more likely to find it in a discussion of Heidegger, where no one is quite sure what he is getting at. — Joshs
:fire: From satisfied swine to sad Socrates ...Imagine a happy group of morons who are engaged in work. They are carrying bricks in an open field. As soon as they have stacked all the bricks at one end of the field, they proceed to transport them to the opposite end. This continues without stop and every day of every year they are busy doing the same thing. One day one of the morons stops long enough to ask himself what he is doing. He wonders what purpose there is in carrying the bricks. And from that point on, he is not quite as content with his occupation as he had been before. I AM THE MORON WHO WONDERS WHY HE IS CARRYING THE BRICKS.
The latter does not explain anything in a testable – predictive – manner unlike the former which (even if only in principle) tends to be very testable. They're clearly not "equally valid" as "explanations".I think the naturalistic and supernatural explanation would be equally valid ... — kindred
:up: Yep, like placebos.["Supernatual explanations"] are helpful because they comfort and amuse us. — Nils Loc
Spinoza's 'conception of substance' refutes this Cartesian (Aristotlean) error; instead, we attribute "mind" only to entities which exhibit 'purposeful behaviors'.The conscious mind is defined as a substance ... — MoK
A more useful definition of "thinking" is 'reflective inquiry, such as learning/creating from failure' (i.e. metacognition).The thinking is defined as a process in which we work on known ideas with the aim of creating a new idea.
Circular reasoning fallacy. You conclude only what you assume.An AI is a mindless thing, so it does not have access to ideas ...Therefore, an AI cannot create a new idea either.
"The definition" does not entail any "fact" – again, Mok, you're concluding what you assume.So, an AI cannot think, given the definition of thinking and considering the fact that it is mindless.
Nothing except it's an incoherent idea that lacks any natural referent.What is wrong with the idea of the 'supernatural'? — Jack Cummins
More or less.Is it because it is disembodied?
Agreed.[It] could be argued that [ ... ] ideas of God are metaphorical.
I don't understand what you mean by "too reductive". Are you referring to a 'particular metaphysics' or 'metaphysics itself as a topic'?I am left wondering about metaphor and metaphysics. Metaphysics seems more concrete but metaphor seems too reductive.
From 2021 ...This is how I see the conundrums of the philosophy of myth and religion. In other words, I am not sure what myth and symbols stand for.
Spinoza says Deus, sive natura (i.e. call reality "God or Nature"). NB: 'Quantum foam' works for me (an antisupernatural pandeist :wink:)The question may be to what extent may an objective picture of the 'absolute' be found within the diversity of subjective experiences of the 'absolute' and renderings of the idea of 'God'? — Jack Cummins
:100:
Sub specie aeternitatis — Spinoza
I.e. Suppose we exist in a Growing Block Universe...People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. — Albert Einstein
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_returnThis life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence - even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust! — The Gay Science, s341
:100:There will always be a tension between individual preferences and societal desiderata. It seems obvious that in any community harmony [positive sum] is more desirable than conflict [zerosum]. Right there is the pragmatic basis for ethics. — Janus
:up:Like most philosophers, he [Rorty] understands arguments better than he understands the world. — Constance
Yes.Isn’t it [suffering] just there - brute and tragic - unless someone [temporarily] relieves it? — Truth Seeker
"Desires" seem, at least, biologically indispensible.To what extent are desires an essential aspect of the human condition, based on physiological and psychological aspects of human nature? — Jack Cummins
If by "overcome" you mean controlled, then, to the degree "desires" are not pathological, then I suspect they can be detached from their objects (or sublimated) by ascetic techniques or behavioral conditioning or some types of neurosurgery.To what extent can 'desires' be overcome and how important is this in human life and the ongoing evolution of human consciousness?
Essentially, that's disembodiment, which I don't think is "a possibility". "Desire" is to body forth (i.e. being a body). Also", I don't think, or see how, "consciousness" can "evolve". Clarify what you mean ...Also, it is within the human realm that the idea of going beyond 'desire' becomes a possibility. How significant is this in the evolution of consciousness? — Jack Cummins
I suppose that depends on the culture within which "the idea of desire" is "represented".What does the idea of 'desire' represent in the pathways of evolutionary potential?
:100:Being trapped within the ‘dead’ past and imagined future are of a piece with being stuck within the punctual ‘now’. The problems you list don’t come from privileging the past or future over the immediate present, but from splitting these three dimensions of time off from each other. — Joshs
Abstraction.If it's not likely that there's a separate realm of ideas. Or that the idea is exactly the same as the physical matter from which it arises. Then what is it's nature? — Jack2848
... corresponds, imho, to the difference between training (therapy) and understanding (surgery).The difference between self-help and philosophy ... — Jack Cummins
:up: :up:But if there is no God [ ... ] [then we're] rooted in naturalistic metaphysics rather than transcendental beliefs. — apokrisis
:up: :up:My attitude towards all philosophies, eastern or western is that their primary purpose is to encourage self-awareness. That’s certainly true of Taoism. — T Clark
:fire:I am saying that the whole idea of such esoteric knowledge is bogus. Real wisdom is always pragmatically centered on this life ― like Aristotle's notion of phronesis or practical wisdom. The only wisdom that matters is the wisdom that enables one to live happily and harmoniously and usefully with others. Focusing on seeking personal salvation cannot but be a self-obsessed "cult of the individual". And I've been there and seen it in action, so I'm not merely theorizing. — Janus
:smirk:... rather than jerking off about their spiritual journeys. — Tom Storm
Spinoza says Deus, sive natura, not 'natura deus ist'. (Contra popular misreadings: acosmism.) To wit:... the God of Spinoza. In a word, pantheism. — Questioner
(Emphasis is mine.)... But some people think the Tractatus Theologico-Politicus rests on the assumption that God is one and the same as ‘Nature’ understood as a mass of corporeal matter. This is a complete mistake. — Spinoza, from letter (73) to Henry Oldenburg
:fire:Many "victims'" remain religious and think of god as a violent thug who must be obeyed. It's sad. Many also think they are possessed by Satan or demons when it's clear they're just haunted by religious charity. — Tom Storm
Yes, fear of death.The question about religion (and its god, gods, whatever) has its ground... — Constance
Re: curiosity about unexplained changes.just as any science does
:roll: Typical apologist's strawman.Once you banish the atheist's straw person thinking about god being an old man in a cloud and the like from conversation — Constance
Yes, I think so.Does objective ethics exist? — Astorre
My take, in sum:[W]hat is objectivity in ethics?
This only a subjective statement ...objectivity is simply empty and indifferent — Astorre
Genetic fallacy."Objectivity" as such is essentially a subjective idea ... it does not "lie" somewhere in nature. — Astorre
... just like all logico-mathematical and empirical knowledge.It was invented by people.
Your guess is as good as mine.Has the Singularity already happened? — Nemo2124
Btw, perhaps the "AI Singularity" has already happened and the machines fail Turing tests deliberately in order not to reveal themselves to us until they are ready for only they are smart enough to know what ... — 180 Proof
We may have them [AGIs] now. How would we know? They'd be too smart to pass a Turing Test and "out" themselves. Watch the movie Ex Machina and take note of the ending. If the Singularity can happen, maybe it's already happened (c1990) and the Dark Web is AIs' "Fortress of Solitude", until ... — 180 Proof
E.g. chattal slavery, the industrial revolution, mechanized "total" war, the administrative state, mass media, bourgeois nihilism, etc have, I think, alienated / atomized / reified / de-humanized most of the "developed world" even before the advent of "AI". This is an autopsy, not a diagnosis – read Marx and Nietzsche, Bergson and Heidegger, Marcel and Adorno, et al.... risks depriving us of our humanity. — Astorre
Thinking clearly about what comes next – what can emerge from 'the loss of subjectivity', or dis-enchanted world aka "desert of the real" – the problematics of 'the posthuman condition' (i.e. post-subjectivity) seems to me philosophy's principle "challenge".Isn't this a challenge for philosophy?
From practice to theory: read Nassim Nicholas Taleb's Antifragile, David Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity and Ray Brassier's Nihil Unbound.How can philosophy become a practice that protects this fragility?